Triple 7 or American Pioneer

[bighole]

This may have been discussed before but I searched and didn't see much on American Pioneer powder so I'll post my question.

I've seen the ads on tv about the American Pioneer powder and how they go thousands of shots without cleaning. I think they're referring to sabotted bullets, not lead connicals or prb's.

Is this stuff any good or should I stick with Triple 7?

Do you use the same load data?

Thanks!!

 

[Runner]

Known to be low power and supposed to not store well for long periods. 777 is the better choice for most reasons. Real black is better yet.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Don't know anything about American Pioneer as it's not available around here. But am very pleased with the results when using TripleSeven. Don't know about storage as my oldest is only two years old. Doesn't seem to have taken any hurt over that amount of time.

Everybody here will likely counsel you to use real black powder if you can. I'd go along with that statement, but for reasons specific to my application I stick to TripleSeven for hunting loads. Real black powder (I use Goex) is very nice stuff to shoot in terms of reliable ignition and no "crud ring" in the bore. I use Goex for all my plinking and love it.

 

[faw3]

look under Shooting acc may be 10 or more spots about this , hope this helps . Anyone in East Texas know of a place selling black powder or 1 of these other 2 all we can find is the "P"! thank ya fred

 

[bighole]

look under Shooting acc may be 10 or more spots about this , hope this helps . Anyone in East Texas know of a place selling black powder or 1 of these other 2 all we can find is the "P"! thank ya fred

Looked over there and saw a thread going. Thanks!!

 

[jdixon]

Cast away those demon potions lad! - Rustle up a can of Swiss powder - you will not go back to that fake stuff!

 

[howdydoit]

Id say BP all the way. It can be ordered online. Yes it has a steep hazmat charge but bp is better than any of the other stuff. Once they let the factory smoke out of that other stuff it just goes to pot. :rotf:

 

[Guadamo]

APP Powder is a good choice if you dont want to take the time to clean your black powder rifle but I have to admit that when it comes to ignition there is no substitute that will ignite any better than black powder especially in a traditional style rifle. APP in a traditional style rifle will have troubles with miss firing and the FFg Jim Shockeys Gold powder which is a premium brand of APP powder will not ignite at all due to its granular size prohibiting it from getting into the breech area of my T/C Greyhawk rifle. I had a little better luck with the standard APP powder in FFFg but it still would misfire in my gun. Triple seven would be a better choice by far but like I said and most on this forum would probably agree, real black powder is the best for your money. I personally have never had any problems with black powder which is something I can't say about any of the substitutes.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

American Pioneer does not store well. I gave mine away as it clumped up and I still had to swab between shots the same as BP Goex. I would use 777 over American Pioneer. I use only Goex BP myself as ignition problems always seem to be problem for me using anything else, especially Pyrodex. That has been my personal experience, I started with Goex BP and tried all the rest and mail order it from Powder, Inc.
Jim in Idaho

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

I just order Goex BP through Powder, Inc. in Arkansas I believe.... and UPS delivers right to my door. You have to order 5lb minimum, but you will shoot that up faster than you think. Some states may have restrictions on it, but I live in Idaho and no problem.

Jim

 

[Catof9tails]

Not trying to change the thread here, but I haven't shot 777 in my muzzleloaders. Is 777 a BP subsitute? If it is, then is it equivilent to weight as BP or by volume like Pyrodex?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that 777 is cleaner than APP.

Teach this old cat about 777 and I'm sure Bighole will appreciate your comments as well.
Thanks, Cat9

 

[strongarm]

Stick with 777. Pioneer has gone out of business three times in 5 years. The stuff is clean burning but very weak to even black powder. IVe actually found my conicals laying on the ground 10 feet from the target. Groups are nice for squirrel hunting and that's about it. :thumbsup:

 

[Landngroove]

What was the distance to your target?

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Cat - TripleSeven, made by Hodgdon (yes, the same folks who make Pyrodex), is a black powder substitute. It's sugar based, so doesn't have the same sulphur stench as real black powder. It produces something like 15% more power per unit of volume, as compared to black powder. Keep in mind this is an approximation, because even different brands of real black powder have different amounts of power per unit of volume.

If you're going to load up with 777, and have been shooting real BP before, you'll have to reduce your loads. As an example, full house loads in my Traditions Hawken are 110grains FFg Goex. That's about as much as one dares put in 'er. To achieve the same amount of "bang" with 777 one would not want to exceed 95 grains of FFg 777. And keep in mind, these are grains by VOLUME, not by weight. So your usual method of using a volume powder measure is just fine for shooting 777, just back the charges off by 15% and you'll be fine.

TripleSeven has some known issues. Firstly, it does appear to require a slightly hotter spark to make it ignite. I switched to #11 Magnum caps and have had no ignition problems, even after leaving the gun loaded for a week of deer hunting. The other known problem with TripleSeven is the "crud ring" - a ring of fouling which appears to build up in the barrel right about where the base of your bullet would sit when loaded. This is no big deal - especially if you are in the habit of swabbing between shots. In the field you'll have not much difficulty loading enough shots to kill a deer or two without swabbing. I find with stout hunting loads that I can get up to 10 shots without really having to worry about swabbing. Obviously for target work I load every shot the same, so swab between every shot. Heck, it only takes an extra second, so why not do it anyway?

So, that's the low-down on TripleSeven as I know it from my experience. I personally love the stuff, and I've dealt with a few whitetail bucks that have learned the hard way not to mess with a "fifty" full of TripleSeven!

 

[faw3]

I use swiss in my 48" H+A bench uh, and 777 is the only powder that will print 1 ragged hole at 50 yds(433 and 440 ball) it goes a lot deeper in my back board than 3f Goex, Ive had some guys tell me they cant use a big/hot primers under compression because of a sprung action or two,( Sharps,its one of those things that loads from the wrong end rifles :rotf: ) sounds like its what you use it in if its weak in yours, it sure isnt in mine. Fred :hmm:

 

[gordy]

Most Wal-Marts that carry Pyrodex are also carying T7.You may not have noticed it as the can and label is black the same as Pyrodex Select. :thumbsup:

 

[Catof9tails]

Thanks NJR. I might pick some up and try it out. Sounds like 777 has more power than the APP I've tried. Thanks for the info.

Cat9

 

[Terry D.]

I've been using 777 pellets in an inline I recently bought, but BP in traditional. I just picked up a pound of 777 loose FFG at Walmart on sale for $15. They have Pyrodex on sale for $9/lb.

The crud ring is a pain. I usually put a lot of BP cleaning solvent on the patch to be sure it breaks up easily. I've only shot bullets in sabots in the inline. Maybe that makes a difference?

I like the smell of real black powder.

 

[strongarm]

Hodgden now recommends a 15% reduction when using triple 7. The fire ring seems to happen on all guss that use a #11 cap, but like you say, a good wipe or cleaning keeps it eliminated.