Trouble loading lee conical into cylinders

[64Springer]

Do you happen to know the BHN number on the 45 lead 45 tin, 10 antimony ? Are they water quenched or dropped on cloth pad and shot as cast after sizing/lubing?
What do they weigh ?

45-45-10 is a lubricant made with Lee ALOX and it be the greatest lubricant ever invented for cast bullets.

45 Lead, 45 Tin, 10 Antimony would be a tad expensive.

And harder than a diamond in an ice storm.

 

[springfield art]

Shucks, I'd just go with round balls.

 

[B P Arn]

Shucks, I'd just go with round balls.

Yep. Easier to load, and more accurate.

 

[M. De Land]

45-45-10 is a lubricant made with Lee ALOX and it be the greatest lubricant ever invented for cast bullets.

45 Lead, 45 Tin, 10 Antimony would be a tad expensive.

And harder than a diamond in an ice storm.

That seemed really heavy on the tin as it doesn't harden much more past about 4-6 percent . Linotype is 84 lead, 12 antimony and 4 tin with a Brinnell reading of 22. Wheel weights are commonly 97.5 lead, 2 antimony and .5 tin with a Brinnell reading of 11-12 unless water dropped.

 

[64Springer]

I'm not following.

3% Tin isn't for hardening. Tin ensures the bullet is well formed/defined.

I don't want hard bullets.

 

[nkbj]

Jr45,
Getting those bullets seated in the chambers with the bases properly perpendicular to the axis of the chambers (and subsequently the barrel) is the biggest booger bear for accuracy when using bullets with flat bases. Lee puts a smidgen of reduction on the bases in order to assist in the process but it isn't always enough. just depends on how the bullets work out with a particular revolver. My remedy is to size down the bases a little so that the tail ends slip into the chambers. A solution that some people have written about is to load the Lee bullets backwards, an unnatural act to be sure but if it works then hey, who's to say it's wrong?

 

[M. De Land]

I'm not following.

3% Tin isn't for hardening. Tin ensures the bullet is well formed/defined.

I don't want hard bullets.

I was confusing your allox lube percentage with lead alloy percentages hence the inquire! Ever tried making some Mathews lube for black powder cartridge or wads................ you'll sell off your allox lube after wards for black powder use !
In black powder cartridge target shooting we don't normally use any antimony only lead tin mixtures for grease groove and Paper patch bullets. In these alloys usually in the 25-1 or 30-1 range tin will only add to hardness up 4-6 percent and any more is just a waste. Tin does add to hardness marginally but as you pointed out it makes the cast bullet fill out more perfectly.
It is not uncommon for some of these shooters to cast 500 plus grain bullets and keep them within .5 grains plus or minus in weight but there not doing this with factory Lee, Lyman or RCBS molds. I never could hold that tight of margin but did keep then with .75 plus or minus in 500 plus grain bullets.
Ball molding is very easy compared to large conicals where everything inclucing casting cadence has to be uniform and precise.

 

[nkbj]

By the way Jr45, if you come upon an old Lyman #45266 (in later years called #452066) it's a bevel base semi-wadcutter design that usually pretty easy to load in most percussion revolvers except the .44's made on a 1851 frame.

 

[McClura]

I have been using Kaido Conical Bullets for years in my Ruger Old Army. They are made with the base about .010 less diameter than the driving band on the bullets.
You can Goggle Kaido bullets and read all about them and a lot of videos about his bullets.
There is a post on this sight- ROA and the Kaido Conical Bullet .
Here is a link to some info about them. He makes different weight and sizes. He sells the bullets and you can get the on some sights and he was selling molds also. If you email Kaido, ask him to send his info he had molds and bullets.- [email protected]

Here is a link for some info-
Kaido bullets

 

[Jr45]

Thank you all for the great info. I know that if I wish to continue to use conicals, I will need to have the chambers modified or try a different mold. For the round ball route, what size would be recommend, 454 or .457? If the latter, would this cause loading difficulty due to size?

 

[PastorB]

Thank you all for the great info. I know that if I wish to continue to use conicals, I will need to have the chambers modified or try a different mold. For the round ball route, what size would be recommend, 454 or .457? If the latter, would this cause loading difficulty due to size?

I use .454 or .457 interchangeably, preferring the .457, but most often use .454 since I have that mold. I get better accuracy and more fps with equal loads using the larger diameter ball. Even though Pietta's shave the ball too small, the larger "equator" allows for a better gas seal and more purchase on the rifling. In MY Piettas, I get 150 to 200 fps using the larger diameter balls over the recommended. 451, everything bring equal. Never had a problem loading slightly larger balls when using pure lead, even when using the stubby lever on the "Sheriff's Model".

 

[B P Arn]

Thank you all for the great info. I know that if I wish to continue to use conicals, I will need to have the chambers modified or try a different mold. For the round ball route, what size would be recommend, 454 or .457? If the latter, would this cause loading difficulty due to size?

They only way to know is to try .454 and see how they fit. If .454 turns out to be too small, you need .457, but .454 will usually be the right size (in my experience).

I don't recall ever needing .451.

 

[AlexB]

I use the lee 454 roundball mold for my Pietta 1858's and they cut a nice ring and shoot well.

 

[maillemaker]

I'm still learning the art of cap and ball shooting and I'm having some issues with loading. My 200gr lee conicals are sized to to.451 but are just a tad too large to fit into the cylinder without great effort and struggles even when using a loading stand. My cylinders (pietta 1858) measure .438-.440. What are some suggestions would you recommend? Maybe sizing the conicals smaller, beveling/opening the cylinder?

I assume you are using something like this:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010201578?pid=285116
The problem is that this bullet has no heel. So trying to get them to chamber without kicking at an angle is very difficult.

I suggest if you want to shoot conicals seek out Eras Gone Bullet Molds. The heel on the bullets lets them start into the chamber easily.

 

[Bunk]

I'm still learning the art of cap and ball shooting and I'm having some issues with loading. My 200gr lee conicals are sized to to.451 but are just a tad too large to fit into the cylinder without great effort and struggles even when using a loading stand. My cylinders (pietta 1858) measure .438-.440. What are some suggestions would you recommend? Maybe sizing the conicals smaller, beveling/opening the cylinder?

The bullet that was designed to use in C&B guns has a heel that fits in the chamber mouth then rams down engaging the driving band. Eras Gone has moulds that are cut using the shape and size of the original paper cartridge bullet which has a heel. My Uberti '51 Navy is quite happy with the Colt cartridge Works 124 grain bullet. The loading window is a bit tight but will work.
The Uberti rammer has the original shape to use with bullets. the Pietta rammer is shaped for ball only. Somewhere in the past Mike Beliveau has a video on how to change the rammer on the Pietta to accept the bullet nose.
OR go to VTI and buy a Uberti part.
Best Regards
Bunk

 

[MSW]

have you slugged the barrel? (you can see where i'm going with this)

 

[Bunk]

Do you happen to know the BHN number on the 45 lead 45 tin, 10 antimony ? Are they water quenched or dropped on cloth pad and shot as cast after sizing/lubing?
What do they weigh ?

Those hard bullets should be a "female dog" to load. C&B bullets are traditionally made from pure straight soft lead.
There are sources at some scrap yards, but to save time and avoid trouble I simply buy ingots of 90%+ pure lead from Roto Metals.
Hold Center
Bunk

 

[B P Arn]

I assume you are using something like this:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010201578?pid=285116
The problem is that this bullet has no heel. So trying to get them to chamber without kicking at an angle is very difficult.

I suggest if you want to shoot conicals seek out Eras Gone Bullet Molds. The heel on the bullets lets them start into the chamber easily.

I tried the Lee molds. 36 and 44 calibers. Total frustration. I ended up throwing the molds in the garbage can.

 

[Bunk]

I tried the Lee molds. 36 and 44 calibers. Total frustration. I ended up throwing the molds in the garbage can.

ERAS GONE make a proper bullet mould for both .36 and .44. The design of their bullets are taken from original Civil War (how can a war be civil?) battle field found originals.
They have a selection of both North and South bullet types rifle and revolver.
well made and the bullets work.
good luck
Bunk

 

[Bunk]

I tried the Lee molds. 36 and 44 calibers. Total frustration. I ended up throwing the molds in the garbage can.

the eras Gone .36 and .44 have a selection of heel bullets. The heel makes loading Uberti guns easy.