I bought a custom made rifle in 36 cal.from a listing on Gunbroker and am having an unusual problem with it. The seller said that the rifle was assembled from parts purchased from Track of the Wolf. After I fired it a few times I started to have misfires. Examination showed that the Drum which holds the nipple had rotated forward toward the front sight about an 1/8 turn and the hammer was not striking the cap on the nipple squarely. I was able to turn the drum fairly easily with finger pressure and lined it back relatively square with the hammer but only a few shots moves it back out of alignment again. I thought that the drum might not be fully screwed into the barrel but it will not rotate another full turn. I have never used a rifle with a drum and nipple arrangement before having used T/C Hawken rifles for all my B/P shooting. Any suggestions?
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Trouble with custom rifle
- Thread starter benjo
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Maybe put a shim,(washer) behind it so that you can snug it down tight?
I agree with Rebble with a shim.You can get a cheap set of feeler guages from auto parts. Clamp them together and drill a hole the proper size for your drumb. Pick out the thickness that makes it come tight in the right place.Trim the outside to fit the drumb and install.
If you decide to shim the drum, it will take about .005 times the number of 1/8th turns you need to bring it back to the proper postition.
That is to say, if it is 1/2 turn too far past the right place, you would need four 1/8ths so you would need 4 times .005 or a .020 thick shim.
A simpler way to fix this is to remove the drum. Clean the threads in the hole and on the drum to remove any oil or grease.
Apply a drop of Locktight Thread locking compound to the drum threads and screw it back in to the correct position.
Let it sit for a few hours for the compound to harden and you done.
This method has the additional advantage of sealing the threads to prevent any leakage thru them.
You can buy Thread locking compound at any Auto Supply store for a few bucks.
zonie
That is to say, if it is 1/2 turn too far past the right place, you would need four 1/8ths so you would need 4 times .005 or a .020 thick shim.
A simpler way to fix this is to remove the drum. Clean the threads in the hole and on the drum to remove any oil or grease.
Apply a drop of Locktight Thread locking compound to the drum threads and screw it back in to the correct position.
Let it sit for a few hours for the compound to harden and you done.
This method has the additional advantage of sealing the threads to prevent any leakage thru them.
You can buy Thread locking compound at any Auto Supply store for a few bucks.
zonie
It may also be possible to lightly peen the drum where it contacts the barrel. This method has been used with revolver barells for a long time.
Va.Manuf.06
58 Cal.
You have a serious problem and none of the above are good answers. If your drum will rotate with finger preasuer only, you have a major safety issue and could, on firing, launch the drum out of it's threaded hole sending it on a trip of its own into a bystander - you would be liable for any damage or injury caused. You have two options:
(1) The best option is to send it back to the seller and get your money back and find a new rifle.
(2) The easiest way to solve the problem is to install or have installed a new drum and nipple. Shiming, thread locking compounds and peening are sloppy and, at best, temporary answers. If you do not feel competant to do the job yourself, have it done by a gunsmith The drum should turn up very tight to the barrel and not be able to be removed by any other method than one requiring a wrench and a fair amount of preasure. The nipple should line up square with the hammer or ignition will be problematic.
Since this problem is evidence of sloppy work, it would be a good idea to have the breaching of the barrel checked, if the maker could not do a simple drum installation it is very possible that the breachplug is improperly installed as well. I would return the gun and look for a better made gun, there are many competant makers out there that can be trusted to do ggod work.
(1) The best option is to send it back to the seller and get your money back and find a new rifle.
(2) The easiest way to solve the problem is to install or have installed a new drum and nipple. Shiming, thread locking compounds and peening are sloppy and, at best, temporary answers. If you do not feel competant to do the job yourself, have it done by a gunsmith The drum should turn up very tight to the barrel and not be able to be removed by any other method than one requiring a wrench and a fair amount of preasure. The nipple should line up square with the hammer or ignition will be problematic.
Since this problem is evidence of sloppy work, it would be a good idea to have the breaching of the barrel checked, if the maker could not do a simple drum installation it is very possible that the breachplug is improperly installed as well. I would return the gun and look for a better made gun, there are many competant makers out there that can be trusted to do ggod work.
Guest
One thing our friends with in-line rifles have taught us is that massive charges can be fired in guns where the breechplug is installed with no more than finger preasure!
1/8 turn is no biggie. The shims, sealant, peening or even teflon tape will work. I have one rifle that was shimmed 15 years ago and shows no further play.
You could try 100 new drums and never find one that would line up perfectly if the hole for the nipple is already drilled. Most builders buy blanks and drill the hole for the nipple after the drum is turned into the barrel. You can buy a blank from Muzzloader Builders Supply and do the same. Suzzie will even send you a drill bit and 1/4 tap for the new hole.
This condition is not necessarily due to sloppy workmanship. It is most often associated with anal-retentive cleaning practices! The drum was removed and reinstalled every time the goofball cleaned the rifle until the threads were too worn to tighten up at the right spot!
1/8 turn is no biggie. The shims, sealant, peening or even teflon tape will work. I have one rifle that was shimmed 15 years ago and shows no further play.
You could try 100 new drums and never find one that would line up perfectly if the hole for the nipple is already drilled. Most builders buy blanks and drill the hole for the nipple after the drum is turned into the barrel. You can buy a blank from Muzzloader Builders Supply and do the same. Suzzie will even send you a drill bit and 1/4 tap for the new hole.
This condition is not necessarily due to sloppy workmanship. It is most often associated with anal-retentive cleaning practices! The drum was removed and reinstalled every time the goofball cleaned the rifle until the threads were too worn to tighten up at the right spot!
I would tend to agree that the drum poses no real threat. All of mine that have ever been worked on and totally torn apart tend to want to wander out of alignment. My best fix was exactly what Zonie recommended- Loctite on the latter part of the threads.I recommend that you inspect the drum well for damage or hairline cracks, and if found o.k., then loctite and let it sit for a while to dry. All of them will wander after continued removal. :thumbsup:
If you have a machinist friend, I'm sure he could take off a little metal to allow it to rotate around and lock up tight. Might be wise to take the same amount off the inner part also, so it doesn't stick any farther into the breech than it should.
As a general comment on threads, the normal threads used on custom guns are class 2 threads.
These threads are not interference threads so if they are properly made, a person can turn the internal thread in the external threaded part with their fingers.
In this case, the fact that the drum turns using only finger pressure is not an indication that the threads are defective.
Va.Manuf.06 is correct if the threads are not "full threads" , and this could be the case with this gun if the threads are worn or were mis-machined.
If you remove the drum, and the external threads and the internal threads are almost "sharp" on their points, the threads should be more than adaquate for safely holding the drum in place when the gun is shot.
If a visual examination leaves some doubt in your mind and you want to really make sure the threads are "full" threads, and if you have an internal/external caliper or micrometer, the small diameter of the internal thread should be:
5/16-18UNC-2B=.252-.265
5/16-24UNF-2B =.267-.277
3/8-16UNC-2B =.307-.321
3/8-24UNF-2B =.330-.340
The outside diameter of the external threads should measure:
5/16-18UNC-2B=.3026-.3113
5/16-24UNF-2B =.3042-.3114
3/8-16UNC-2B = .3643-.3737
3/8-24UNF-2B =.3667-.3739
If your threads meet the size requirements, they are perfectly safe when used with either the shim or the locking compound method of preventing rotation of the drum.
zonie
These threads are not interference threads so if they are properly made, a person can turn the internal thread in the external threaded part with their fingers.
In this case, the fact that the drum turns using only finger pressure is not an indication that the threads are defective.
Va.Manuf.06 is correct if the threads are not "full threads" , and this could be the case with this gun if the threads are worn or were mis-machined.
If you remove the drum, and the external threads and the internal threads are almost "sharp" on their points, the threads should be more than adaquate for safely holding the drum in place when the gun is shot.
If a visual examination leaves some doubt in your mind and you want to really make sure the threads are "full" threads, and if you have an internal/external caliper or micrometer, the small diameter of the internal thread should be:
5/16-18UNC-2B=.252-.265
5/16-24UNF-2B =.267-.277
3/8-16UNC-2B =.307-.321
3/8-24UNF-2B =.330-.340
The outside diameter of the external threads should measure:
5/16-18UNC-2B=.3026-.3113
5/16-24UNF-2B =.3042-.3114
3/8-16UNC-2B = .3643-.3737
3/8-24UNF-2B =.3667-.3739
If your threads meet the size requirements, they are perfectly safe when used with either the shim or the locking compound method of preventing rotation of the drum.
zonie
