Trouble with cycling 1861 Colt

[Birddog1911]

Just got my Uberti 1861 Navy. Gave it a good cleaning, and was going to dry cap it. I put the caps on, and since then the cylinder won't cycle. I've tried pushing the caps further down, but doesn't seem to help. Any ideas?

 

[hawkeye2]

Did you try cycling it after cleaning and before capping? Check the barrel/cylinder gap. With a Uberti it's possible to tap the wedge in so far it will pull the barrel back against the cylinder locking the gun up (short arbor syndrome).

 

[Birddog1911]

Yes, I did cycle it fine after cleaning. I'm still new to C&B pistols, but I thought that the gap was okay. The wedge is not too tight. I can mostly work the wedge by hand.

 

[ZUG]

Did you take it apart to clean it -- I mean totally disassemble it - if so did you reassemble it correctly ?

 

[bang]

Check the trigger/bolt spring. Make sure the legs are on the individual parts.
If the arbor is short it could be possible to push the wedge in enough the cylinder gap can close to dragging on the barrel. The gap should be enough you can see light with a bright back lite.
The gap needs to be even, square to to each other. You can check the arbor fit by removing the cylinder and reassembling without the cylinder but turn the barrel to miss the mating surface at the frame then see if the barrel overlaps the frame. If it overlaps put a washer the thickness of the overlap in the arbor hole and check. Adjust thickness as needed. If the wedge goes in to the hilt the arbor fit most likely is off.
When you disassembled it did you check for rough spots and burrs and smooth them?
Since it cycled but apparently would not cycle with caps on it are they dragging on the recoil shield?
Are the caps tight as soon as you put them on?
If so some dressing of the nipples cone diameter may be needed for those particular caps so they will fit proper. Caps with the pleated skirt take a bit more push to seat than the caps with the split overlap skirt.
Brands of caps have a little differences in dimensions and sometimes having a set of nipples for each is handy.

 

[Birddog1911]

I did field strip the pistol, but not a complete disassembly.

I checked the arbor, and it's properly sized. The caps are dragging on the recoil shield. They don't feel like they're too tight on the nipple, but I could be wrong.

Including some pics of the gap, and the back of the cylinder. There is a very small gap uncocked, and it mates up when cocked.

 

[45D]

You probably have the wrong size caps. You need CCI 11's or REM. #10's. They should cover most of the nipple.
As for checking the arbor length, you can't check it the way it is described ( you could on old examples). You said it is new and Uberti so that means it is short. Drop a thin washer down the arbor hole and assemble or, just drive the wedge in and see if the barrel contacts the cylinder. That's proof POS the arbor is short (BTW, "thumb" or " finger" tight isn't correct either). The wedge should be under tension when installed. The correct arbor length is what determines the barrel /cyl clearance or "endshake" for a more modern term. The only open top revolvers made with a more or less"correct " length arbor are Pietta's since about 2012 or so. Ubertis though are more dimensionally accurate and have the best action parts ever put in an open top revolver (so don't be too bummed!)

 

[Birddog1911]

#11 CCI caps had the same problem.

The attached pic shows the barrel pushed back as far as possible on the arbor. I don't seem to have a small enough washer at the moment to try.

 

[45D]

I understand, but when the barrel is correctly oriented, it will go on further. The way the barrel and arbor are broached, gives it a "keyed" fit . . . which is why that isn't an accurate test. If you can lock it up with the wedge in " too far" that's all the test you need. Believe me, it's short.

Mike

 

[Sam squanch]

Trouble with cycling 1861colt………I saw a 1851 colt navy cycling down the road….he could barely reach the pedals….

 

[LST-1185]

Hello Birddog. In my case I own several Uberti revolvers and all of them have short arbors. I use a case harden machine washer that I adjust to get a proper cylinder gap and wedge fit. On two of my revolvers I have also had to install a shim in the arbor wedge slot in ordered to get the cylinder gap between. 002 and .003. I enjoy shooting my Uberti's but they do require a fair amount of maintenance. Best regards.

 

[Birddog1911]

I'll have to run out and get some small washers. Appreciate the help, and will report back.

 

[hawkeye2]

"The caps are dragging on the recoil shield."

Perhaps it's just as well it won't cycle. Firing the gun with that condition can cause the cylinder to slam back against the recoil shield firing all the chambers.

 

[Birddog1911]

Well, I guess I didn't want to think it could happen to me. But, yes, a couple of washers put everything in motion, so to speak. Cycling fine now. I'll test at the range in the morning.

Thanks again for all of the assistance.

 

[Brokenbear]

Birddog I don't have a dog in this hunt but I am concerned about a couple of things you have said ..
A.Exactly how much gap is now between the cylinder and the forcing cone of the barrel
B.With TWO washers installed (I can't image two when often one thinned washer is a lot)
C.Is there any gap where the two pins mate at the bottom of the barrel shroud
D.Is the wedge firmly in and both FLAT shoulders of the wedge on the right side of the barrel shroud
inserted enough that neither side of the wedge's rounded corners are in contact with the wedge
keyway?
E.Think about a couple of cylinders worth of percussion caps (please wear eye protection) only to slowly cycle the new gun ..watching
for correct cylinder indexing and lock up ..checking the unfired caps for dragging ..seeing if the caps
pop on the first hammer fall or if some take double strikes to fire (double hammer strikes would be
incorrect percussion cap size) ..doing all this familiarization without charged chambers
may make some sense

FYI I have two new (3 months old so current production) Uberti's ..Colts 1860 & 1862 ..NEITHER gun has "short arbor syndrome"

Bear

 

[45D]

Well, I didn't see any dimensions given for the washers (there's no magic number) so could be 1,2 or 3 with a shim added. I called that a "shim stack". The problem with the stack is even the thinnest layer of epoxy / JB (or whatever) will eventually compress (at least in horse pistols shooting max loads) which then will allow the barrel/cyl clearance to close and lockup the cyl. For that reason, I switched to a single spacer (each fitted to the particular revolver), never had a problem after that.

As far as the 2021 offerings from Uberti, I've had a few through the shop and they still had short arbors. It would be nice if Uberti would fix the arbors but I doubt they ever will.

Mike

 

[Birddog1911]

Well, starting to wonder if more is going on. I took it completely apart, because it feels like something may be wrong with the bolt. With the barrel removed, if I put a slight amount of tension on the cylinder, it will not turn.

Here's an example. I just reassembled, with out the shims. I turned the cylinder to cap it, and kept turning it by hand with no problem. Then I fully cocked it, and lowered the hammer over a capped nipple, but didn't let it strike. And it locked up again.

I don't know what is going on.

 

[45D]

The bolt isn't resetting. The hammer isn't going far enough down to allow bolt reset. Probably the cap is too tall on the nipple or just not fitted correctly from the factory. The cap itself may be touching the recoil ring which would make cycling difficult. From the pic, the hammer has a lot further to go, cap looks like it isn't seated far enough. It should cover most of the nipple not just half.

Mike

 

[Birddog1911]

When I was capping and turning, the caps were not rubbing on thw recoil ring. The hammer will sit all the way down uncapped, but then this happens. That pic shows where it locked up, presumably on the bolt. What can I do to ensure it resets properly?

 

[Brokenbear]

If it is imported by Taylors you can call them for a warranty repair order and it will be back in your hands quick ..week to 10 days ..their gunsmiths are top notch and shockingly ..NOT Kranky !

If Cimmaron is the importer I do not know

But either way ..if new ..it rightly should go to the warranty station

Bear