Trying ID Replica Pennsylvania Flintlock Rifle w/brass tube Mossberg Scope - made in Spain

[MrCreosote]

UPDATE: Action mechanism embellishment looks like a CVA
Barrel marked Spain and a Serial Number
It has a slotted apparently removable touch hole liner.
Here are some pics:

Thanks
Tom

PS. I think I should use a different bedspread (!)

 

[Sam squanch]

I think the scope is worth more than the rifle….

 

[MrCreosote]

I think the scope is worth more than the rifle….

NO: It might be a Jukar since it is stamped "SPAIN" however compared to a properly stamped JUKAR pistol, the artwork on the mechanism is very different. Also, if a JUKAR, why wasn't it stamped like the pistol? Also the finish on the barrel is nothing as fine as the pistol, but then hard to polish a hexagonal barrel. A JUKAR knockoff?

Mechanism embellishment looks like a CVA

LOL, I have no idea what any of these muzzleloaders are worth - I'm 72 and my dad probably got them in the 80s or 90s - a friend probably needed money and he bot them. I'm familiar with modern guns but even knowing nothing about muzzleloaders, I was not impressed with any of these rifles and also 2 pistols mentioned below.

There's also a flintlock pistol that looks same vintage/condition as this rifle and an Ethan Allen pepperbox probably by Classic. The pistol is stamped Spain and the make is a very poorly stamped Jukar - I think the touch hole is too low relative to the pan. Nothing on eBay, internet and gunbroker doesn't even have Spain in the pulldown list of countries of origin. Even looking for "Mossberg tube brass scope" brought back crickets. I'll bet the scope came with the gun when new.

The other two guns in the pic are incomplete caplocks, the top one is an unfinished kit with some (or all) of the trigger mechanism missing, the other one is missing the loops that hold the rod but it does have the rod.

How do I figure out what this stuff is worth? I'm at that stage in life where I'm selling off personal property. I have 2 potential private sales and I'm guessing even if I sell cheap to them, I'll get less from a gun shop - right? Sell as a lot or break into groups: flints, caps, Jukars, pepperbox, or ...? I have no idea if an incomplete muzzleloader is worth anything, maybe to a lo-buck hobbyist who builds stuff from scrap. Barrel?

 

[Trot]

I'd say it's a CVA, these were made by Jukar in Spain.

 

[MrCreosote]

I'd say it's a CVA, these were made by Jukar in Spain.

Any thoughts on the scope? I have still haven't found anything on the net. Maybe a Mossberg 7R or something like that, but I think they were not brass. Probably a replica but wonder if it was part of the gun features sold by CVA. The replaceable touch hole was unexpected. The middle rifle is a CVA with a massive "Connecticut Valley Arms" stamped in the barrel. So why not on the scope gun? Were these outfits loosey goosey in this regard?

 

[Trot]

No idea on the scope, but the CVA guns were made by Jukar I suppose it may have been made by Jukar but not for CVA?

 

[rafterob]

I would say the top rifle for parts only, looks like someone used a 2x4 to make the stock. Depends on what the barrel is for price. The middle rifle maybe $150, the bottom Rifle with that scope (assuming the optics are clear) $250 maybe $300 if someone really wants that scope. The pistols around $100 each.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Jukar has made those for several different companies over the years and they are still being made today. Back in the 70's you could pick one up for $50.00 the pistols were about half that. I remember those tube sights not sure what they sold for but probably a couple hundred back then. The top one looks like someone was trying to make a one piece stock for it. I would think the tube sight alone is probably worth what all the guns together would bring.

 

[MrCreosote]

I would say the top rifle for parts only, looks like someone used a 2x4 to make the stock. Depends on what the barrel is for price. The middle rifle maybe $150, the bottom Rifle with that scope (assuming the optics are clear) $250 maybe $300 if someone really wants that scope. The pistols around $100 each.

Thanks for the estimates.

OT: My fuzzy approach to pricing.​

​

My method of estimating prices: the 1, 2, 5,... Sequence found on electronic instruments such as oscilloscopes when selecting some range.
It's a rounded off 2X-Steps. Instead of 2,4,8,16, 32 you get 1,2,5,10,20,50,... which are repeating numbers, easy to remember.​

So I look at these guns and ask myself, Are they worth $50 each?, no, too cheap. What about $100?, maybe, What about $200? no, too much!
So best guess is $100 each which is $500 and your total was $600 ​

Sometimes best guess in this sequence isn't obvious - somewhere between - so you pick the midpoint as the price.​

So instead of $10,20,50,100.... you end up with prices like $15, $35, $75 which don't scare the Buyer off like $100 does.​

​

There's always the stigma of a "keystone number" like the hundreds: $100,200,300​

This shows up in auctions: "I'm not going to bid over $100" is widespread. If you want it, bidding will stall abruptly >$100. So big a little over and get it.​

So when selling, that's why we always see $39.95 - that $40 will turn people off. ​

I swear it works. Ask $19, $99, $149, etc.
​

That top rifle stock is strange:

• Absolutely no markings anywhere.
• Comb has more "angle" to it requiring a bigger piece of wood.
• Comb has milled, raised ribs on its side - could have been cheaper?
• Has the full wrap around brass on the butt - could have been cheaper
• And then there's the big nasty knot at the Grip - definitely cheap, junk even? Stocks should be clear.

 

[MrCreosote]

Jukar has made those for several different companies over the years and they are still being made today. Back in the 70's you could pick one up for $50.00 the pistols were about half that. I remember those tube sights not sure what they sold for but probably a couple hundred back then. The top one looks like someone was trying to make a one piece stock for it. I would think the tube sight alone is probably worth what all the guns together would bring.

That Mossberg scope is a mystery but could it be "Real or Memorex?:"

Uncle had a "fine" violin with a Guadagnini label on the inside. Took it to a Skinner Road Show, it was a knockoff. But the bows were fine, best worth $1500. So I let them auction it, Violin did $800, the good bow, $3000 and the lesser bow $1600.​

I've search a lot on internet, even Google Picture Search and found nothing. Not even the Mossberg emblem. I did run across an page from an ancient Mossberg catalog and it does look similar to a 7R if I remember correctly but I can't find the ad now, but all the scopes in that catalog were black.