Tungsten matrix?

[Britsmoothy]

It will be September the 1st soon, our waterfowl season.
There is a chance I can get under some greylag geese, a slim chance!

Wanting to use big Ted the 10g I may have an opportunity to aquire some tungsten cartridges I can get the shot from in #5. I'm thinking a 2oz cloud might just do it if I can be as close as I expect. The harvest may change it all as it often does come September but what I want to know is,,,, is tungsten matrix ok with chokes? My 10g is choked etc.

 

[excess650]

Kent indicates their "tungsten matrix" is tungsten powder in polymer and safe in older barrels with fixed chokes.

 

[Historian]

Hey Mr Britsmoothy! Yes TM will work just fine with chokes. I shot it by the case loads 20 years ago out of modified and full chokes. However #5 shot might be a tad small on geese unless you are within 45 yards. Works great for ducks though. Used to use it out in Arkansas in pit blinds. Now the #3 and #1 TM shot will definitely drop them hard. Also TM is as soft as Magnum grade Lead. No shot cup needed. Now ITX is a different story though. Good luck sir.

 

[Treestalker]

Two oz of #2 (American) size shot will jerk the world out from under them. But can it be had in tungsten? I'd think using a plastic shot cup may save the chokes, but not sure. Dang it, I grew up in a different world. My Dad wore out a Browning A5 shotgun back in the glory days, 1930's up through the '60s. Being the last born, I was too young to hunt with him in the marshes of the Texas coast. I did pluck a lot of ducks and geese though. I remember plucking ring neck Canada geese when they were longer than I was tall. One time dad brought home an unlikely pair- a Canada goose and a blue wing teal duck- the largest and smallest legal waterfowl. I hope you can tag those grey lag geese with #5, that's my favorite all around shot (American). I don't know how British #5 compares to our stuff. Good luck with Ted the Goose Killer, LOL.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Hey Mr Britsmoothy! Yes TM will work just fine with chokes. I shot it by the case loads 20 years ago out of modified and full chokes. However #5 shot might be a tad small on geese unless you are within 45 yards. Works great for ducks though. Used to use it out in Arkansas in pit blinds. Now the #3 and #1 TM shot will definitely drop them hard. Also TM is as soft as Magnum grade Lead. No shot cup needed. Now ITX is a different story though. Good luck sir.

Thank you.
I an concerned about it being #5 but this spot that I have taken geese from is a small hill top they often fly over quite low. Not every year mind but often. They are often under 30yds!
I will see what deal I can strike.

 

[Flintfan69]

The only shot that is safe to shoot "naked" (no protective shot cup) is lead and bismuth. Any shot that contains tungsten is abrasive to steel barrels/chokes. The manufactures try to pass off some the tungsten shot make ups as being "soft", but there are light years of difference between "soft" and "non-abrasive".

The manufactures of ALL of the tungsten shot recommend they be used with thick walled protective shot cups, that includes TM and ITX.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Two oz of #2 (American) size shot will jerk the world out from under them. But can it be had in tungsten? I'd think using a plastic shot cup may save the chokes, but not sure. Dang it, I grew up in a different world. My Dad wore out a Browning A5 shotgun back in the glory days, 1930's up through the '60s. Being the last born, I was too young to hunt with him in the marshes of the Texas coast. I did pluck a lot of ducks and geese though. I remember plucking ring neck Canada geese when they were longer than I was tall. One time dad brought home an unlikely pair- a Canada goose and a blue wing teal duck- the largest and smallest legal waterfowl. I hope you can tag those grey lag geese with #5, that's my favorite all around shot (American). I don't know how British #5 compares to our stuff. Good luck with Ted the Goose Killer, LOL.

Yes sir, me too, the world has changed,,,,and not for the better!

One thing is for certain though friend, I won't be using plastic.

I have taken geese and duck with cartridge guns for years. But I want to progress to a real gun

 

[Britsmoothy]

The only shot that is safe to shoot "naked" (no protective shot cup) is lead and bismuth. Any shot that contains tungsten is abrasive to steel barrels/chokes. The manufactures try to pass off some the tungsten shot make ups as being "soft", but there are light years of difference between "soft" and "non-abrasive".

The manufactures of ALL of the tungsten shot recommend they be used with thick walled protective shot cups, that includes TM and ITX.

Oh,

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Pretty much what Flintfan said. The tungsten in the polymer is, or can be, abrasive, although its not going to blow out your chokes. Of course you could take the cup wads out of the shells, which would certainly protect from abrasion.

Given the number of shots your scenario seems likely to offer (0-6?), if Big Ted were a reproduction, I would just go for it.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Pretty much what Flintfan said. The tungsten in the polymer is, or can be, abrasive, although its not going to blow out your chokes. Of course you could take the cup wads out of the shells, which would certainly protect from abrasion.

Given the number of shots your scenario seems likely to offer (0-6?), if Big Ted were a reproduction, I would just go for it.

That is my take on it too

 

[Stumpkiller]

I have good results with grocery-bag paper cups I form at the muzzle. Keeps the lead from abrading - damaging the lead and leaving same in the bore. Surprisingly they hold up to the firing.

Not authentic or period - but they do also tighten the pattern slightly.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I have good results with grocery-bag paper cups I form at the muzzle. Keeps the lead from abrading - damaging the lead and leaving same in the bore. Surprisingly they hold up to the firing.

Not authentic or period - but they do also tighten the pattern slightly.

Good stuff Stumpkiller.
I have done similar with thin card and steel but only a few shots and no choke in my trade gun.

I will call at the shop selling them tomorrow, they may have gone already. We will see.

 

[Walkingeagle]

TM #5 is no problem at the distance you’re talking. I’ve no idea on abrasion however.
Walk

 

[nkbj]

Is a bore fitting columnar paper sleeve practical to use? Elongating the shot column and making for fast reloads?
A paper tube wrapped and glued, then filled with shot and carried in the field bag.
It's a concept I started working on a couple of years ago but more pressing matters intervened. No doubt many a shooter has done the same thing and formed their opinion of its worth.

 

[Historian]

TM is not abrasive like ITX is. They load it with thin walled lead style wads. I cut too many TM factory shells open to save the shot when the brass plated steel hulls rusted over from wader hunting in southern swamps. ITX is mildly abrasive, you can feel it in your hands if you rub the shot around. I made some incredible shots with TM #3 and #1 shot.
Brit, what is the largest size shot you can use over in England for geese?

 

[Britsmoothy]

TM is not abrasive like ITX is. They load it with thin walled lead style wads. I cut too many TM factory shells open to save the shot when the brass plated steel hulls rusted over from wader hunting in southern swamps. ITX is mildly abrasive, you can feel it in your hands if you rub the shot around. I made some incredible shots with TM #3 and #1 shot.
Brit, what is the largest size shot you can use over in England for geese?

The only limit in shot size is .360" for shotguns on shotgun certificates.
I'm not sure at this moment what is available to the reloaded TM wise.

Boy I wish we could still use lead. There should be exemptions for TRADITIONAL muzzleloaders.

 

[Robby]

Befor I jug choked one of my fowlers I experimented with making shot cups from 3 x 5 index cards. They worked great and like Stumpkiller They did tighten my patterns. Good Hunting!!!!!
Robby

 

[MAC1967]

I have good results with grocery-bag paper cups I form at the muzzle. Keeps the lead from abrading - damaging the lead and leaving some in the bore. Surprisingly they hold up to the firing.

Not authentic or period - but they do also tighten the pattern slightly.

I like this paper bag idea you have . . . pretty smart . . I've thought about trying for ducks or geese with my BP smoothbore. . . ( I'll look for some Bismuth shells. )

I've shot a lot of Canadian geese w my modern shotguns and #3 is as small as I'll go . . . and that's early in the Sept. first season . . .when snow and ice come in Dec & Jan I use #2 or BB. . . ducks I use 2, 3 & 4. . . mostly with a 20 gauge . . . Geese, I use my 12 mostly.

 

[Brokennock]

I like this paper bag idea you have . . . pretty smart . . I've thought about trying for ducks or geese with my BP smoothbore. . .

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/premade-shot-cups-cartridges-how-to.113216/

 

[ohio ramrod]

Is a bore fitting columnar paper sleeve practical to use? Elongating the shot column and making for fast reloads?
A paper tube wrapped and glued, then filled with shot and carried in the field bag.
It's a concept I started working on a couple of years ago but more pressing matters intervened. No doubt many a shooter has done the same thing and formed their opinion of its worth.

For many years I have used paper shot cartridges made of newspaper. I roll three thickness around a dowel rod,tie one end with kite string, fill with shot,twist and fold over then tie shut with the kite string. I load powder, two leather wads, then shot cartridge folded end out.