turkey paterns

[longfowler]

I tried something new today, that I read on this forum a few months ago. after shooting a couple of douhnut hole patterns, I thought to try a shot with out any cushion wads or a shot cup. to my suprise, it nearly doubled the density!It went from 2-3 hits on the turkey head to 6 or more, all at 25 yrds. so far my best results were with 80 grs of 1f, an overpowder card,120 grs of #4 shot,and a overshot card. some of the shots with wads & cups were complete misses, but all of the shots with out would have been kills! I went about 25 shots without cleaning, and the last pattern was as good as my first. I would have shot more but ran out of card wads! I don't know the actual pellet count because I only had turkey head targets. next week I'll try it with #6's to see if my gun likes that better.

 

[musketman]

Half the fun of muzzleloading is working up the right load and the thrill of seeing it all come together when you start getting the results you desire...

Those turkeys are in trouble now... :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[J.D.]

It sounds like you have found a good consistent load. You might try increasing your shot charge a bit. Increasing the shot charge will often increase shot density and reduce the diameter of the pattern.
Ya gotta continue to experiment to find the best load though.
J.D.

 

[ffffg]

pay particular attention to the first pattern of the day for turkey, continous patterns for clays, once and hour or so for pheasant.. they are all different if you want to get tecknical.... if you load right away after you shoot you should be fine, as it will scrape the barrel pretty clean, rather than let the fouling harden.... first shots can have more velocity,becouse the barrel is slick.. or less if your oiling too much.. it doesnt matter as long as its always the same.. try to pattern in the same weather somewhat as when you will hunt.. a shot gun can pattern different in summer than during a cool early spring morning.. a little less powder in the summer and some more as it gets cold usually will take care of it.. dave

 

[CoyoteJoe]

J.D, the gentleman is already loading 50% more shot than powder and that is a very lopsided load. Of course more shot will increase pattern density since you have more pellets to start with. However, the velocity will be way down, perhaps no more than 800 fps. A modern shotshell load of #4 shot is still doing a bit over 800 fps at 40 yards! So, in terms of penetration, that lopsided load is like giving away the first 40 yards! Is that a reasonable thing to do?
You may put a lot of holes in paper with a low velocity load but when the target needs killing I'd not stray too far from the equal volume measure, which give about 1000-1100fps and is still relatively slow compared to modern loads. I'd increase POWDER to at least 100 grains, more if using 1fg.

 

[riarcher]

Joe;
I was sorta thinking the same thing (light velocity) when I saw the "80 gr. 1Fg". But then again, barrel length, guage, ignition was not mentioned.
So I sat back down and kept still ( :winking: )

 

[ffffg]

shoot a steel campbell soup can at distance you wish to shoot and where patterns are working well.. if the pellets go thru the can where the can is flat(not glancing off) then power is fine.. smoothbore black powder is not as much velocity usually as modern guns.. it can be done with much fussing and sometimes a jug choke.. but we are talking turkey here, not a flying bird so velocity isnt a huge issue, patterns are.. if he steps up velocity for pheasant for example a pattern at 35-40 percent (40 yards)would be sufficient and could have more veloctiy to achieve this type load for crossing birds.. dave..

 

[hawk]

the way I see it is
120grs by volume is 4 drams or 1 3/4 oz as close as I can tell and is around 700grs by wt. or 210 pellets.(No. 4 shot)
How much powder do you need to drive the load to harvest a turkey ?
I 'm asking 'cause that may be the load I use in my 12 bore.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Hawk, is your gun choked? Choke makes more difference in patterns than anything you can do by adjusting loads in a cylinder bore. A full choke pattern with just one ounce of shot will actually put more pellets into the center of the pattern than will a cylinder bore with two ounces of the same shot. I've owned a couple of percussion doubles choked modified and full and never had any trouble getting them to pattern up to standard. In fact, I reamed out some choke from the modified barrel to get a pattern large enough to hit a grouse without pulverizing it. :haha:

 

[hawk]

one gun is open and one is modified.
I've cut the choke off a 12ga pump for shootin' grouse also .

 

[Bob J]

I use 110 grains 2f (4 drams) and 1 1/2 oz. of #5s for turkey. Lesser amounts of powder would not pattern well. This particular load works well with overpowder card and 1/2" cushion wad OR two overpowder cards and no cushion wad (the latter following the V. M. Starr philosophy). Killed a twenty-something pound gobbler with 10" beard using the overpowder card-only load.

 

[BS]

I use 110 grains 2f (4 drams) and 1 1/2 oz. of #5s for turkey. Lesser amounts of powder would not pattern well. This particular load works well with overpowder card and 1/2" cushion wad OR two overpowder cards and no cushion wad (the latter following the V. M. Starr philosophy). Killed a twenty-something pound gobbler with 10" beard using the overpowder card-only load.

So the CARD hit him in the head and killed him? :hmm: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Sorry, just the way I read it! :shocked2:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

For turkey I'd certainly go with the choked gun and equal volumes of powder and shot. With #4 shot you'd have enough penetration to kill long past where the pattern becomes too thin. With #5 shot and equal volume of powder you'd still get reliable penetration to 50 yards if your pattern will hold that far, which is doubtful. I'd say #6 shot may be the best balance of pattern and penetration. The use of #4 shot comes from those who try to tighten their cylinder bore patterns by loading much more shot than powder. Their velocity is very low so #6 shot may lack penetration. They step up to #4 to regain penetration but there are fewer pellets in two ounces of 4's than in 1 1/4 ounce of sixes so that really defeats the whole purpose of increasing the shot load.
Recoil will be brutal with that 1 3/4 ounce load, I think you'll find an ounce and a half of shot to be plenty in the choked bore. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

All this depends on gauge, but I began working on loads for my open choke 12 ga. and found a load listed in an 1880 publication about Illinois River Commercial Duck Hunters. They were using 11/4 oz of #5 shot, on top of 2 3/4 drams of black powder to kill ducks at 50 yds. No mention of jug chokes, but I have to assume that their guns were so choked, as it was the common thing to do that then. I have used the same load to shoot and kill pheasants out to 25 yds. Have not hunted turkey yet but the pellet counts I get would indicate I have a good load.

For my 20 Ga. Fowler, I am using 2 1/2 drams and 1 1/4 oz of #5. The velocity is just at the bottom of the transonic zone, so the pattern stays tighter, and the pellet energy at 30 yds is approx. 3.5 lbs. and velocity is still 800 fps. Ballistics Products sells nickel plated shot, and that will help tighten the groups even more, and deliver good penetration. YOu can also buy plastic shot protectors, and a mylar collar to insert into the wads to protect your barrel, and even use fillers to protect pellet shape to tighten and fill out the patterns even further. A 45-50% pattern at 30 yds would allow you to make a killing shot even a few yards further.

Paul

 

[hawk]

What should I expect to pay for a bag of #6 lead shot in ontaio canada? any body??
thanks for the load info guy's
I use # 6 in my 12ga pump but only have #4 in loose form. (picked it up at a gun show years back, can't recall what I paid)

 

[Rebel]

It runs around $17 a bag here.

 

[J.D.]

J.D, the gentleman is already loading 50% more shot than powder and that is a very lopsided load.

I you read early 18th century books on shooting, you will find that 50% more shot than powder is recommended for flint guns. The idea of equal amounts of powder, wads, and shot came about in the percussion era.

My experimentation with shot in my smooth bore bares out the 18th century recommendation.

I have killed quite a few squirrels at ranges beyond 30 yards with 80 gr FFG, one .135 card wad and 120gr measure of #5 shot. I shoot #5's because that's what patterns best in my gun.

longfowler
I would try FFG in that smooth bore. Double F seems to shoot much better, and much cleaner in my 11 ga.

It would help if we knew what bore size you are shooting.

Shooting the steel can is a good idea for estimating the power of a shot load. BTW
J.D.

 

[gmww]

Hey JD excuse my newbie question. When you say 120 grn measure are you using the same measuring device as for the powder? Are you using your powder measure at 120 grns?

 

[Rebel]

My guess would be Yes he is using the same measure for both. 120 gr equivelent of shot would be around 1 5/8 oz.

 

[Hoyt]

That gives my best turkey pattern..bout 75 to 80 grs. 2 or 3f and 120grs by volume shot.