turkey paterns

[gmww]

Hi Hoyt. I've been enjoying you little ventures into the woods after hogs and turkeys. Are you using a cup with the shot or...?

 

[paulvallandigham]

I suspect that it gives that " best turkey pattern" because with that much shot, the velocity is slowed down enough to keep it near, or below the speed of sound. Check that over a chronograph. The velocity will tell you more about how well it will kill at various ranges than just the pattern. The Chronograph will also tell you what wads work best to deliver consistent velocity, shot after shot. I doubt those soft felt wads are providing much of a seal to the gases. Using more shot only fills out the fringes of a pattern, and rarely increases the number of pellets in the center of the pattern.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Actually it comes from Joseph Manton's rules for shotguns. You know, Joe Manton, the guy who made the famous flintlocks? He recommended 3 1/4 drams of powder to 1 1/4 ounces shot in his 12 gauge guns. That's "purtnie" equal volume measure and why would you think flint or percussion matters? If you have slower ignition do you want lower velocity too?

 

[J.D.]

I haven't read Manton's rules for shotguns, but I do have enough experience at killing squirrels at 30+ yards with an 11 ga bess to know that 1 and 1/2 more shot than powder works.

I get nearly full choke patterns with this load, and enough power to do what it is intended to do.

More velocity doesn't do any good if the pattern is not consistent. Striving for more velocity usually results in doughnut holes in the patterns, so a higher shot to powder ratio cures the hole, and gives more than sufficient killing power, provided the powder charge is sufficient. In my experience, 80 gr FFg with 120 gr measure of shot, in an 11 ga flintgun, is more than sufficient.

As with all things muzzle loading, every gun is different. Experimentation is the key to developing good consistent patterns, and we sometimes have to think outside the box, or in this case, outside of the "traditional rules of thumb" to achieve those consistent patterns.

I only offered my experiences and the experiences of a number of friends and acquaintences to someone who was trying to improve his patterns. I'm sorry if that isn't good enough.

And yes, the 120 gr measure is measured with the powder measure.
J.D.

 

[Rebel]

JD, no need to get all upset. I apprecitate your input, as well as everyone elses. Any advice that may help is always welcome. Don't quit posting info, your experience is helpful. Thanks.

 

[mbritt]

Where can I get a copy of Joseph Manton's rules for shotgun? Haven't found it on the Internet searching with google.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Where can I get a copy of Joseph Manton's rules for shotgun? Haven't found it on the Internet searching with google.

I really wouldn't know where you could find it in it's entirety. I've only come across references and excerpts in other books. The one I have at hand is "American Shotgun Design and Performance" by L.R.Wallack but Manton is mentioned only briefly on page 111 under a discussion of "dram equivalent". Actually it is Manton's "Laws" if that may help your search. Wallack states that "Manton's laws are still correct and will remain so as long as we live on earth." That may be putting it a bit strongly but one to 1 1/4 ounces shot with 3-3 1/2 drams powder is still pretty hard to beat except for punt guns. :grin:

 

[hawk]

rebel I picked up a 25 lb bag of #6 for 24 bucks canadian
thanks for the price reference.
now I'm goin' out to the back yard to see if I can
get it to pattern I think I'll try 3 drams of ff and 1 1/2 oz of shot with an over powder card lubed felt wad (old boot liners ) and over shot card
keep your fingers crossed :thumbsup: