TVLLE - spanish barrels on TRS kits?

[Ike Godsey]

hi everyone and happy easter!

once again i have a question and i (again) hope you can help me.

a while back i posted a TVLLE musket that was on sale here in germany on a gun auction. the gentelmen here informed me it was a 1729 TVLLE de Grenadier, a kit from TRS. the thing that was a bit surprising was, that this gun had spanish proofmarks stamped on the barrel. here is a pic:

after that i was able to find another TVLLE musket on sale here in germany. from the pics i posted here on the board, the gentlemen told me that is a 1734 TVLLE de Grenadier, also made up from a TRS kit.
this time i was able to get the gun so i took it home and found out there are no proofmarks visable. i disambled the gun because of a varnished stock and thought to get rid of the varnish, making a nice oil finish to it. that said, i disambled the gun and found some interesting marks on the lower part of the barrel (that part that is in the stock, not visable). here are the pics:

since "MENDI" is a well known plant in spain that makes muzzleloading guns, and it is not possible to buy a US kit, finish it in spain and get MENDI to proof the barrel, is it possible that TRS sold kits that has been delivered with spanish barrels?

does anyone out there has a older gun, made from TRS parts that has similar marks on the barrel?

ike

 

[Yeti]

I'm sure someone with more experience with TRS will add some authoritative information to the thread for you but here is my 2 cents for what it's worth. It does look like a Tulle Grenadier though I'm not sure about the year. That 2nd barrel doesn't have anything resembling octogon flats that would generally be present on a 1720 or later Tulle musket. I have a hard time believing it came from TRS.

It's entirely possible the muskets are from TRS parts, though I don't think the barrel is. Perhaps it was made with the intention of being used and the location the builder/owner was in required some proofing? Easier to just buy a barrel in that case from a local supplier that can meet the local requirments for mill reports/testing etc.

 

[JohnN]

I'm not positive but I do believe almost all French muskets from the 1660 Fusil Ordinaire - 1746 used octagon to round barrels. You can buy all the parts from TRS without the barrel.

 

[Ike Godsey]

come on guys!! the pics shows the barrel from its UNDERSIDE! the octagon part is only the upper five flats - thats all ou can see when the barrel is in the stock.

OK, here is a pic from the left side. the TVLLE as i received it. can you see the ocatgon part now?

ike

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

The barrel is of the correct pattern. As far as it's origin, TRS uses Colerain and a few other US barrel makers' products. If one of these barrels is exported to a country whose law requires proof, it can be proved in an acceptable proof house or a barrel can be made in country and substituted for the American barrel. TRS will inform the maker as to the dimensions and the barrel is made to those specifications. That may be what has happened here? Spanish barrel makers are capable of high quality work for the domestic and export markets.

 

[JohnN]

I have a TRS 1660 French Fusil Ordinaire and a 1743 French Marine musket. Both barrels are octagon all the way around( for the first 10 or so inches). Both are Colerain.

 

[KABAR2]

In some countries the barrel is the controlled item, it may be that the kit was shipped without a barrel and the builder used a proofed spanish barrel which would have come with a proof house letter unlike a unproofed American barrel..... I had a Spanish made repro M1752 musket at one time it came with the proof house papers.... they make good barrels I wouldn't mind any gun with one of their barrels....

 

[Ike Godsey]

i don't mind about the barre either, i just wonder. proof marks alone is on thing. so one could import a TRS (or TOW or any other) kit and let the barrel be proofed in the staate proofhouse.

but the barrel on my TVLLE has not only a proof on it but also a maker stamp "MENDI". so it is clear the barrel has been made in spain.

anyway - someone mentioned the octagon part of the barrel on his TRS gun has 8 flats. mine just has 5 flats and the stock is made to fit the barrel exactly. so i believe TRS bought the barrels from MENDI in spain or let them make the barrels to their configeration.

anyway, my gun looks good, feels good and since it is ofcficialy proofed it is 100% safe to shot! :thumbsup:

 

[KABAR2]

anyway - someone mentioned the octagon part of the barrel on his TRS gun has 8 flats. mine just has 5 flats and the stock is made to fit the barrel exactly. so i believe TRS bought the barrels from MENDI in spain or let them make the barrels to their configeration.

5 flats is historically correct on a Spanish 1752 musket the bottom was round I suspect the French did the same on their guns... easier to inlet.....

 

[alex efremenko]

Why does not someone call TRS and ask?

 

[Ike Godsey]

Why does not someone call TRS and ask?

'cause no one answers the phone...

 

[alex efremenko]

I always call first thing when they open. I seem to have best luck talking to a person then.

 

[Ike Godsey]

I always call first thing when they open. I seem to have best luck talking to a person then.

well thats very hard to menage from germany - don't you think?
but if you would like to do so, go ahead and do it - i will glady hear you telling us the outcome.

 

[Ike Godsey]

anyway - someone mentioned the octagon part of the barrel on his TRS gun has 8 flats. mine just has 5 flats and the stock is made to fit the barrel exactly. so i believe TRS bought the barrels from MENDI in spain or let them make the barrels to their configeration.

5 flats is historically correct on a Spanish 1752 musket the bottom was round I suspect the French did the same on their guns... easier to inlet.....

thats true.

meanwhile it seams the dust has cleared!
the gun i own and the gun shown in the first post on that topic (and da different topic here in the board) are NOT TRS weapons!
many of the gentlemen here said this guns are made with TRS parts or made out of a TRS kit. well regarding to the information i have on hand now, they are completly made in spain at a factory called MENDI.

there are two types of guns they made a 1729 and a 1734 TVLLE de Ordinaire de Grenadire. both guns are NOT made for the muzzleloader market, but for a special order to a fort in north america (i still tracing the name of the fort right now). the guns that are one sale here in europe are just a handfull out of their production - either a pre-serial-gun oder a serial-gun that was an "over production" to the order.

to what i've been told, there have been three original TVLLEs that have been send to MENDI to be disambled and the reproduction made exactly to their messurements and looks. that includes the stampings on it. this also explains why those guns are marked "TVLE" istead of "TVLLE" - the story tells me that some of those guns have been made in "used" or "vintage" finish. so the "TVLE" stamp would help determine the original from the copy.

don't know how much truth is in this story, but since everything that i was told fits in to my gun, and the 1729 pictured above, plus the fact that there is a third musket on sale on an german auction, will cause me to believe what i have been told.

any thoughts?

ike

 

[alex efremenko]

I might be trying to contact them soon. if i can remember , i'll try to ask.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I always call first thing when they open. I seem to have best luck talking to a person then.

well thats very hard to menage from germany - don't you think?
but if you would like to do so, go ahead and do it - i will glady hear you telling us the outcome.

Ike, I found Alex's responce pretty reasonable. you came looking for information, he provided you a way to get it.

Why would it be anymore difficult to call from Germany at that hour than to call from here.

The Germans I know don't find much difficult. :wink: Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Ike Godsey]

well, i did something different.

if you go to the TRS website, there is a german dealer listed - i called him
he said that most TRS kits sold in europe had spanish barrels by MENDI.

he also mentioned that MENDI made some 250+X TVLLEs for a fort in canada that were made up with TRS parts. so he confirmed the story that i've been told.

ike

 

[alex efremenko]

Hmmm :hmm: most interesting.thanks for sharing.

 

[cjbrown_2000]

So TRS has Tulle parts, and not just St Entienne?

 

[JohnN]

Tulle was an armory and not a particular type of gun. They made hunting and military fusils. The fusil de chase offered by TRS is the St. Etiene (sp) model. Many of the Marine muskets and the bucaneer (sp) were made by Tulle.