TVManufacturing…..

[GANGGREEN]

Not to be confused with TVMuzzleloading. Anyone build any of Jack Garner's TVM kits recently? I built his fowler kit a number of years ago and it was of acceptable quality although the wood was left quite proud (perfectly acceptable to me, I know how to use a rasp and file) and the wood was plain in that gun. I just got off the phone with him and discussed the possibility of sending my own wood down and having a fowler or TN rifle kit returned. If I go with the fowler, I think I'll go the .54 route (28 gauge I think) and will likely send a piece of walnut, clear cherry or curly cherry down (his standard kit comes with clear maple I think). If I go with the TN rifle, I'll send a very fancy piece of curly maple, but I'm not sure what caliber to go with. I don't think he offers it in a .32 (I don't have one), so I'm leaning towards a .50 with a 7/8" barrel or a .54 with a 15/16" barrel, but I'm not sure what either would weigh or if I should consider a swamped barrel upgrade (I think it would cost about $130 extra including the additional cost of the barrel and the extra inletting).

Anyone have any recent experiences with Mr. Garner's kits or have general opinions about my options here?

 

[Sidney Smith]

I thought Mr. Garner sold the rights to the old TVM to Matt Avance?

I bought my poor boy kit from Jack about 5 years ago. There was some issues going on with his company and it took a while for me to get the kit. The parts looked as though they had been on a barn shelf for years. A lot of rust and the stock I got looked like it was carved from a stump. I almost sent the thing back as I was pretty disgusted with it and them. Figured it would be more trouble than it was worth so I kept it. I made the gun work but that was the end of them getting my money.

Mind you this was several years ago so I don't know whether Jack Garner is back in business or not.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I could be wrong, but I think Jack sold the company to another gentleman (not Matt Avance) a number of years ago, but that he recently bought it back again. Assuming I go this route for one of my upcoming builds (I have three in mind right now), I'll send my own wood, so I'm not really too concerned about the quality of the blank, but more concerned about the quality of the duplication/cutting. Thanks for the response, I was having a hard time believing that nobody had dealt with the man recently.

 

[longcruise]

I made a phone call to the company about 4 months ago regarding some small parts. Talked to Jack's wife. Jack was in the shop. I bought a blank from him quite a few years ago. Just barrel channel and ramrod groove. After all that time the wood stayed straight and true.

 

[Sidney Smith]

To add to my previous story, as I recall now, Jack Garner had somebody working the business as it was shutting down. I remember dealing with some guy named Randy over the phone. I had to inquire a few times as to when Id get the kit as it was several months in the offing. One day I got a call from Mr. Garner himself. He told me how this Randy fellow was not doing a good job and how he was ruining Jack's good name. He told me they (the old TVM) were technically shut down, but since their website was still live and didn't mention anything about their business woes, he (Jack) was going to honor my request for the poor boy kit. This I thought was honorable from Mr Garners perspective, so I went ahead with the kit anyway.

I dont fault Mr. Garner however it seems he let some clown take his business down near the end. Looking back, Id have rather he just sent my check back than send me what they did. Now mind, the kit wasnt horrible, but it was a lot less than what I had expected. I had previously bought my Lancaster kit from them, several years before, and it was fine. I know apples to oranges when talking Lancaster vs poor boy, but the time it took and the obvious low quality items I received was not a very settling feeling. It seems this Randy character just slapped any old parts they had left into a box and called it a kit.

Like I said, I made the gun work, and it turned out looking half decent, but that was due to my skill, not due to anything they did to rectify things. That was enough for me to decide from then on not to buy from TVM again. Now maybe they've improved I don't know.

 

[LuVerne Schumann]

To add to my previous story, as I recall now, Jack Garner had somebody working the business as it was shutting down. I remember dealing with some guy named Randy over the phone. I had to inquire a few times as to when Id get the kit as it was several months in the offing. One day I got a call from Mr. Garner himself. He told me how this Randy fellow was not doing a good job and how he was ruining Jack's good name. He told me they (the old TVM) were technically shut down, but since their website was still live and didn't mention anything about their business woes, he (Jack) was going to honor my request for the poor boy kit. This I thought was honorable from Mr Garners perspective, so I went ahead with the kit anyway.

I dont fault Mr. Garner however it seems he let some clown take his business down near the end. Looking back, Id have rather he just sent my check back than send me what they did. Now mind, the kit wasnt horrible, but it was a lot less than what I had expected. I had previously bought my Lancaster kit from them, several years before, and it was fine. I know apples to oranges when talking Lancaster vs poor boy, but the time it took and the obvious low quality items I received was not a very settling feeling. It seems this Randy character just slapped any old parts they had left into a box and called it a kit.

Like I said, I made the gun work, and it turned out looking half decent, but that was due to my skill, not due to anything they did to rectify things. That was enough for me to decide from then on not to buy from TVM again. Now maybe they've improved I don't know.

Currently there are two companies named TVM. As was pointed out in the original post. Jack still produces nice

kits. I ordered his Tennessee poor boy a couple months ago and it built out fine.

Your information is dated at best. Jack's still putting out product that's pretty good and fairly inexpensive. And its Tennessee Valley MANUFACTURING, not Tennessee valley muzzleloading, which is the other company.

 

[Notchy Bob]

If I go with the fowler, I think I'll go the .54 route (28 gauge I think)

Just for the record, 28 gauge is closer to .550". This might make a difference if you want to use commercial shotgun wads.

A few thoughts regarding the choice of barrels... For a while, I had a .50 caliber late Lancaster-style rifle with a 7/8" x 42" barrel. This was not from Jack Garner or Matt Avance, but from another pretty well known builder. The rifle handled and balanced nicely, but the builder installed a White Lightnin' vent liner, despite the fact that I specifically said I did not want one. His reasoning was I "would not be happy without it." On a slim barrel like that, with relatively thin sidewalls at the breech, the flash channel is short and you really don't need a liner. Furthermore, with the metal that thin, the liner (which was designed to be countersunk) is only held in by a few threads, which could potentially be a safety hazard, and the builder left the liner protruding into the bore. This created a fouling trap, which was very difficult to clean. There was no way you could get a jag, brush, or scraper to the breech. I sold that rifle, with full disclosure to the dealer who handled the consignment.

Anyway, If you go with a swamped barrel, with a thicker sidewall at the breech, a vent liner coned on the inside may quicken ignition. If you go with the .50 x 7/8" or .54 x 15/16" barrel, in my opinion you would be best served without one. Just a straight, drilled hole of the appropriate size and in the correct position.

I know none of that has anything to do with Mr. Garner or his company, but I thought it might be pertinent since you seemed undecided about your choice of barrels. Good luck with your gun, regardless of what you choose! Let us know how it goes.

Notchy Bob

 

[Sidney Smith]

Currently there are two companies named TVM. As was pointed out in the original post. Jack still produces nice View attachment 36578kits. I ordered his Tennessee poor boy a couple months ago and it built out fine.

Your information is dated at best. Jack's still putting out product that's pretty good and fairly inexpensive. And its Tennessee Valley MANUFACTURING, not Tennessee valley muzzleloading, which is the other company.

Dated? Yes as I said this was probably 5 who knows maybe more years ago. I don't remember exactly at this point. But, it did happen to me. I'm glad it seems everything is well again with Mr. Garners new company. Wish I'd have dealt with him under differing circumstances but it is what it is. I still will not ever buy anything from TVM again though. Just left a distrust with me that I'm not going through again.

Its actually easier IMO, to simply get an idea of what you want then just buy parts piecemeal from outfits like TOTW, or Muzzle loader builders supply and create your own kit of sorts. Thats what I did with the current gun Im putting together.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Typically I run my own wood to Dave Keck at Knob Mountain and I purchase my own parts as you've suggested. I have no problem purchasing from one outlet if they have appropriate parts and have them all at one time though. I still like Dave Keck, still think that he does great work and will still likely give him most of my "kit money", but just exploring all of the options to see what's out there these days.

Dated? Yes as I said this was probably 5 who knows maybe more years ago. I don't remember exactly at this point. But, it did happen to me. I'm glad it seems everything is well again with Mr. Garners new company. Wish I'd have dealt with him under differing circumstances but it is what it is. I still will not ever buy anything from TVM again though. Just left a distrust with me that I'm not going through again.

Its actually easier IMO, to simply get an idea of what you want then just buy parts piecemeal from outfits like TOTW, or Muzzle loader builders supply and create your own kit of sorts. Thats what I did with the current gun Im putting together.

 

[tnlonghunter]

FWIW, I have a Jack Garner-built Tennessee Mtn rifle in .50 with a 15/16" barrel that is 38" long. I love it, but it's a bit of a beast to shoot off-hand. Don't get me wrong - it'll hang still all day (if your arms don't give out), but I would go with the swamped barrel all day, everyday. The stock and wood-fit is nice. The metal-to-wood fit is very tight. The only things there that I don't love are that the ramrod hole was not drilled full-length; it was routed in from above in the barrel channel. The other was that the trigger plate was cut off just behind the set-trigger. Therefore, the tang screws must be wood, as there is no trigger plate to drill and tap (i.e., the wrist is not "sandwiched" between the tang and trigger plate as on many other rifles). These have not interfered with function or reliability, but still.....

 

[GANGGREEN]

Thanks for the report TNlonghunter. I'm more interested in a kit from TVM than a build, but I'd guess that the ramrod hole would be drilled the same way and that the parts might be the same. I'm not thrilled with the idea of a routed ramrod hole. I'm not sure I understand about the triggerplate though. To get the proper angle on the tang bolt, aren't they typically screwed into the triggerplate in front of the triggers? I also agree with you about swamped barrels on many/most rifles, although I can live with a straight barrel on a Hawken, on a lighter mountain rifle, etc.. Thanks for the thoughts on yours.

 

[Sidney Smith]

FWIW, I have a Jack Garner-built Tennessee Mtn rifle in .50 with a 15/16" barrel that is 38" long. I love it, but it's a bit of a beast to shoot off-hand. Don't get me wrong - it'll hang still all day (if your arms don't give out), but I would go with the swamped barrel all day, everyday. The stock and wood-fit is nice. The metal-to-wood fit is very tight. The only things there that I don't love are that the ramrod hole was not drilled full-length; it was routed in from above in the barrel channel. The other was that the trigger plate was cut off just behind the set-trigger. Therefore, the tang screws must be wood, as there is no trigger plate to drill and tap (i.e., the wrist is not "sandwiched" between the tang and trigger plate as on many other rifles). These have not interfered with function or reliability, but still.....

My TVM Lancaster kit is that way also. The tang screw merely goes into the stock via a wood screw and doesn't attach to the trigger plate at all. I've heard that this method has roots in history. Its not the most secure way of keeping he breech in place, but it hasn't been an issue for me. Could also be a way for TVM to make it easier on homebuilder by not requiring one to have to drill into a trigger plate. That is not the easiest thing to do accurately. Its not real hard to do, but for say a first time builder it could be a daunting task.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I know that it's frightening and daunting for some, but personally I never found the tang bolt to really be a terribly scary operation (and I'm petrified of certain parts of the build). I've done more than a few kits or builds from parts and less than a bunch of them, but I certainly still consider myself less experienced than a good builder (even some that have less actual experience than I do and fewer builds under their belts).

 

[Sidney Smith]

Drilling for the touch hole scares me more than drilling for the tang screw.

 

[MAC1967]

I called TVM about 5 or 6 weeks ago and spoke with Jack's wife . . . Jack was in the shop. . . I ordered parts for a Southern TN rifle I plan to build from a blank.

She mentioned that they had either a flood or a tree falling on the shop and rain damage. (I can't recall which.) This has slowed them down a little. At that time, maybe due to the storm, they could not take my Credit Card. So I sent her a check. Incredibly, the parts came to me before my check got to them. I couldn't believe she sent them before getting my payment. (I love southern folks.) My take on this was that these are trusting people who must also be honest too.

A few of the parts, not all, I got looked a little old, but who cares? They were good quality and priced well. She was VERY nice and helpful. It was my first time dealing with them and I was very pleased.

 

[LuVerne Schumann]

Yeah, Jack doesn't require payment until you receive your stuff and are happy with it.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I guess thats where I differ with people. When I buy something, I expect the parts to be new, not something that's been sitting in a parts bin in some barn to rust before its used.

 

[LuVerne Schumann]

I guess thats where I differ with people. When I buy something, I expect the parts to be new, not something that's been sitting in a parts bin in some barn to rust before its used.

All my Po Boy parts were new. And about $100 cheaper than the closest competitor.

 

[smo]

I think the storms blew the roof off of Mr. Garners place, If i'm not mistaken.

It will be hard too beat his prices on misc. parts and such.

 

[EC121]

By the time you polish the metal and shape the wood it will look new.