twist

[doublebeard]

Hi guys, I'm new here and i would like to build my first rifle. I'm confused about the different twists. What i would like to build is a 45cal long rifle flintlock for shooting at woods walks and paper so i would be shooting round ball only. I've heard that the 1 in 66 is best for shooting the round ball. Can anyone help me out and explain how they rate the twist.

 

[izzyjoe]

you're right 1-66 will what you want to do. and welcome to the site!

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Depends alot on the barrel maker, not all makers offer the same twists in the same calibers.

Don't turn away from a particular maker just because they offer their barrel in a different twist, I have seen a .45 barrel offered in everything from: 1 in 56 from Colerain and Getz, 1 in 60 from Green Mountain, and 1 in 66 from Rice.

Honestly a 1 in 48 will out shoot the individual behind the trigger.

As far as an explination on twist, the ball will make one complete revolution in 48", 56", 60" etc.

 

[mooman76]

A good black powder book or manual would explain it better than I could but I can give you the short version. The larger that caliber gun the less twist rate you need to stablize a bullet or round ball.
The longer the conical bullet is the more twist needed to keep it stablized. Generally when people talk about a bullet being too heavy to stablize it is actually the length of bullet that matters but generally the longer the bullet, the heavier it will be.
1/66 is a very common round ball twist and will do well but that doesn't mean other twists will not work.
A thing to remember also is every gun is different and one gun may not shoot well with a certain twist rate but they next gun may shoot it fine.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Twist is the length of barrel it takes for a ball to make a complete turn. The ball is stabilised by RPM (revolutions per minute ). Therefore a slower twist will require a faster velocity to obtain the desired rpm. This is why faster twist barrels (ex 1/48) will shoot better with a lower powder charge than a 1/66 will. If your primary object is to simply hit targets the faster twists will do nicely and save you some powder. If you want heavier impact for hunting the slower twists will keep accuracy better at higher velocity. :idunno:

 

[Rifleman1776]

There are more theories than twists. And, there is no "best" twist rate for ml'ers.
Generally speaking a 1:48 is an OK all around twist. But it is finicky with loads when trying to achieve utmost accuracy. But it works OK with light loads. Slower twists (e.g. 1:66; 1:72, etc.) are more forgiving with heavier loads but often do need bigger charges to find their optimum accuracy. IMHO, the 1:66 with anything .45 cal. or over is a great choice.

 

[doublebeard]

So what you are saying is that the 1/48 is better with less powder, correct?

 

[Big John]

The 45 for paper, but I'd perfer 50 or 54cal for the small novelty targets at most woodswalks.

 

[Rifleman1776]

So what you are saying is that the 1/48 is better with less powder, correct?

The word I use is "finicky" with regards to optimum accuracy from the relatively fast 1:48 twist. They usually (there are no absolutes in this game) lose accuracy with heavier hunting type charges.
The slower twists are more forgiving.
Only you can decide what you want. If yours is to be a hunting rifle, I would suggest the 1:66 or 1:72 twists. Mostly target you will be very happy with the 1:48.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I agree that 1:48 in .45 is a compromise at best and for strictly round ball shooting should be avoided if you have a choice.

IMHO, the ideal twist for .45 would the those barrels rifled 1:56 - 1:60.....1:66 would be fine but 1:72 is too slow.

As bore sized is reduce in round ball guns generaly the optimum twist gets faster and vice versa. 1:48 are just fine for .36 and .40 calibers and 1:66 and slower twist start to come into their own around .50 caliber an up. 1:72 for the bigger bores like .62 caliber.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

There is nothing wrong with a 1:48 twist as long as it has normal round ball rifling. 1:48 twist gets it's bad rap from the fact that TC put out many barrels with 1:48 and shallow rifling as a compromise rifling that was supposed to be good for both round ball and conical bullets. And it was good to minute of deer.

Many whitetail have bit the dust to TC's 1:48 rifling.

But if you are ordering a barrel primarily for target shooting and sometimes hunting. standard round ball depth rifling in 1:48 will do the job most admirably. As indicated, it will also be good for powder conservation because it tends to do well with lower charges. (40 to 70 grains range I'd guesstimate) True fanatic offhand shooters might go for an even faster twist so they could use 25 to 50 grain charges.

H&H barrel works made a few special target barrels in 7/8's inch and 62 caliber fast twist. But the guns were soley intended for extremely light charges and 25 yd & 50 yd offhand matches.

they looked like stove pipe and I often wonder how many of those barrels were blown up by overloads.

 

[Rifleman1776]

TC put out many barrels with 1:48 and shallow rifling as a compromise rifling that was supposed to be good for both round ball and conical bullets

I believe the rifling came about more from a need for fast manufacturing using button rifling than concern about how it was going to be loaded.

 

[Sperit de bois]

and then I was told and lead to believe,,sound about correct.
Some states have a PRB requirement some you can use either PBR/Conical,,who knows.Then I was told it's a compromize,so figure out the "compromize" and "compromize" some venison....
Anyway I have Hawken T/C and Lyman GPR rifles with 1/48, 1/60 and I eat venison most every year,,I also have an Dixie,KentuckIAN,,not Kentucky, 45,.dont remember the ROT, Iam eating venison taken last season.Deer aint to smart,,they dont know I can kill them with a 45 PRB with 65 grn Pyrodex P. when I cant remember the ROT.I dont want to know the :barf: ROT either,,might discover the ROT wont work ,,according to all the "EX-Sperts" :haha:
Here's the way to do it,,,Take your chosen rifle,along with your choice of PRB/CONICAL,Black Powder or Pyrodex or make your own propellant,go to the range of your choice, be it gravel pit or formal range outside or inside.
Load and shoot in what ever manner fits your need/wants,off hand ,prone,running,setting,left /right hand,paper,steel gong,close or way over there and when you get your rifle hitting where you want it and the rifle is satisfied with what you are feeding it,,Smile be happy shoot more and be happier.
If the fine art of Black Powder Shooting was as easy as modern to master,,,,it would be just as much fun!!!!!!! :barf:
I will be going out later today and shoot ,,,just to make sure my rifle is still happy,"Mjolnir" must be kept happy.
:v

 

[jdkerstetter]

Thanks for the rants guys...but they aren't helping the OP at all. Nobody is gonna make anybody rebore their 1:48" or any other barrel. :haha:

You guys are right, 1:48" is just fine. It's just not the "ideal". But we appreciate your enthusiasm. :hatsoff:

1:48" will work but other pitches are more forgiving and versitile with roundballs.

This is the gun builer's area right? Building a gun you have some choices not offered by TC, Lyman and the others. There has been much research on this subject and there are ideal rifling twist for different applications.

Let's try to keep this to an exchange of ideas.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[doublebeard]

Thanks for the input guys. this gun will be used for shooting only..BUT..if i do use it for hunting it will be used for squirrel and light loads.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Here are the curren big three barrel makers and their offered rates of twist in .45; Green Mountain 1:60" (but getting hard to find as they are stopping ML barrel production, at least for a time) Colerain 1:56" and Rice 1:66".

Any of these three manufacturers barrels will serve your purposes just fine.

Others include Charles Burton Barrels, Oregon Barrel Company Bobby Hoyt and Ed Rayl. These guys do more custom level work and will do different twist on request. Contact information can be googled up.

Enjoy, J.D.