Type of lead for round ball vs bullets

[Regulis7]

Been looking at getting set up to cast round ball and maybe some mini type bullet and have some questions for expierenced casters.

I hear that plumbers lead is the prefered lead for casting mini bullets, the lead is soft and allows the skirt to expand so it grips the rifling when fired.

What about round ball lead? Since the patch is what grips the rifling does the round ball lead need to be of the really soft plumbers type also?

Reason I ask is because I can get various types of lead from a salvage yards dirt cheap, especially the typesetters lead and of course wheel weights. Plumbers lead is avilable on a first come first serve basis, lot of NSSA guys scavange the yards almost daily so they can cast their mini's.

Regulis7

 

[cayugad]

All my muzzleloading projectiles are cast from as pure of a lead as I can get my hands on. I too have been using some plumbers lead and it is working out excellent. Yesterday a friend dropped off what he claimed was a lead cover box from an old phone company exchange. I have no idea what he is talking about, but it seems something other then pure lead. It is lead, just not pure.

 

[Stumpkiller]

In general, all muzzleloading balls and bullets should be as close to pure lead as you can get. Plumbers lead is something like 98.5% pure - but it can vary. I've had some that must have been "recycled" by the plumber and had what I'm guessing was solder in the mix. (If you use lead pipe, be mindful of the solder at the joints). Still useable, but the balls tended to come out a couple grains lighter than my normal runs.

As long as you don't mix bullets of slightly different lead purity you probably won't notice much difference. Wheel weights and typesetters lead (linotype) have higher tin and antimony, so they weigh less but are denser.

I stay away fom the "harder" leads (but I hoard them . . . just in case) and solve the variations problem by chunking my scrap lead into two or three pound pieces with a cold chisel and a 4# casing hammer on an old piece of train rail as my anvil, then mixing up all the scrap. When I do my initial melting into ingots, I use a bit of everything. Later, when I fill my electric furnace, I grab an assortment of ingots from these mixed batches. I figure it tends to spread any variations all through my inventory, so the resulting balls and bullets are generally equivalent run-to-run. I weigh every ball and bullet, and if they are more than a few tenths of a grain out of "normal" I reject them and hope that next time they flux up better and more of the non-lead metals get skimmed off with the dross.

 

[RussB]

Stumps,...... You are a bit peticulous, nice word. no? I also think you should use as pure lead as you can find for the minie. The roundball can be about anything, reasonably soft, and seems to do quite well with wheel weights.
Some may even argue they are "better" when cast from wheel weights. I can't say "better", but I can say they are okay, when used with the proper patch.
If I owned a nice "custom", something like Zonie, and a few others turn out, I just might turn to pure lead only for the RB.....maybe?
I do a lot of casting. I guess that means that I can't remember when I last used store bought for any of the muzzleloaders, and most of my smokeless.
There has been volumes written on propper alloys, mixin and fixin, hardness, the use of moulds, the care of moulds, and all that goes with casting. Enough to scare a person that is just getting started.
This is not to be taken lightly. It has it's place, and these writings will certainly come in handy as you progress in casting, just don't let it scare you off.
IMO, a thermometer and a hardness tester becomes a necessity as you get into casting, albeit I cast for years without either.
If you have a source for your lead at "dirt cheap prices", my advice would be to grab it up. More and more people are going to casting as an added dimension to their shooting, and more and more junk dealers are getting smarter and smarter about their product....It all makes sense, and it is the American way. Grab it up, cast it up, and shoot it up! That too is the American way.
Just my thoughts.
Russ

 

[Stumpkiller]

Stumps,...... You are a bit peticulous

Yeah, I know. I got sent home from the first grade because of it. Ma got some powder and a fine-toothed comb and that took care of the worst of it.

Never borrow a coonskin cap from a kid nicknamed: "Scabs."

As I said, I hoard anything I can melt and pour into a mold. Mostly pure lead is wonderful, but if it comes down to a choice of shooting wheel-weights or not shooting at all, I'm searchin the curbs until I've filled my ball-bag.

Find a centerfire pistol reloader and he will probably trade wheel-weights for plumber's lead 1:1.

 

[RussB]

I hear that plumbers lead is the prefered lead for casting mini bullets, the lead is soft and allows the skirt to expand so it grips the rifling when fired.

What about round ball lead? Since the patch is what grips the rifling does the round ball lead need to be of the really soft plumbers type also?

Regulis7

Regulis7...You've got a grasp on the meat of the matter right there!
You can make this as complicated, or as simple as you like. Stay with the KISS method, it works.

Don't pay much never-mind to Stumps, he's getting old and, I'm told, this happens at that age. (Wouldn't realy know myself though.)

The mould is everything in casting. Not unlike rifles, it will have preferences, and you need to find these in order to get a good cast everytime. "Everytime" might be a misnomer, even to experienced casters. The idea being to keep your re-melts to a minimum, while maintaining good weight and good mould fill.
Casters all have mould preferences, by brand name, and some believe "their brand" is the only brand. I have inexpensive moulds, and some very expensive moulds (by my standards). Some of the very best moulds can be inexpensive. Let your pocketbook be the judge when you decide to get in this.
I suspect one can jump into casting for as little as the price of a mould, if he has a good cast iron pot, a coleman stove, and a ladle for dipping.
Some of these guys, the real purists, use "Bag Moulds" and cast the same as our ancestors did a couple of hundred years ago. I wouldn't recommend this for just starting, but you may want to think about it down the road a bit.
I would suggest "scrounging" all you can to get started, then as time goes by, add to it...you will have a much better understanding of what YOU need.
Welcome to the wonderful world of casting. Be fo-warned it can become addictive.
Good luck on your new quest.
Russ

 

[Keith]

I recall reading, can't remeber where even though it was recently, that antimony will make bullets larger. Not sure why, I presume because the bullet expands as it cools. Any truth to this? While I'm thinking of it what do wheel weights have beside lead in them?

 

[Regulis7]

Keith,

here is an excrept from the below linked site on WW lead...

"The composition of wheel-weights can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. However, the vast majority of clip-on wheel-weights are composed of about 95% lead, 2% Tin, and 2% Antimony, and 1% trace (or trash) metals that don't affect the wheel-weight. Copper is a common wheel-weight contaminant (it's listed on many wheel-weight MSDS sheets, but I don't have a clue as to why Copper is a common contaminant, it

 

[RussB]

Good post Regulis7.....I was wrong in my previous post for not pointing out the "hazards" in casting, and the need for safety.
:sorry:

Of all things, this should have come first.
I guess I sometimes get excited about the prospect of a new caster coming on board, and can't see the forest for all the trees.
I have had pot explosions! two of them!
And, I am what one may consider an "experienced caster", having somewhere around 40 years experience. It was plain carelessness on my part both times. I was very fortunate that I did not get burned very bad either time. Both times the explosion came from adding to the melt! This is bad business! Period. A person may do it 1,000 times, and get away with it every time. It is not a predictable state of affairs, unless you are aware of, or suspect water being present....then it's a given. I feel strongly that if a beginner had this happen, he would give it up, right then and there! Just don't do it! You also can't imagine how many dropletts of lead there are in a 10# pot. And they come in all sizes, from minute to 10 /12 inch splatters...a bad scene at best.
Yes, Safety must come first! and it must stay with you the entire trip. Thanks for the reminder.
Russ

 

[LSU TIGER]

I use the 98% stuff from Midway. Works great for round balls and BPC Rifles. :m2c:

 

[Doc Will]

I will second the Tiger. :RO: I buy all mine from Midaway comes with a purity certification and is around a buck a pound if I remember correctly. Last batch I bought was a 30lb box and that was about 6 months ago and have probably 15 lbs left and I try to shoot at least 3 sessions a month. :m2c:
Doc Will
Keep Yer Powder Dry :thumbsup:

 

[rrgr40]

I get a little more down and dirty at times. I will go to the shooting range and scavenge everything with a jacket or any lead bullet with no rifling marks on it. It works well in a pinch and is as cheap as your time. I have found that the smaller the calibre the better your lead should be.

 

[Keith]

I get a little more down and dirty at times. I will go to the shooting range and scavenge everything with a jacket or any lead bullet with no rifling marks on it. It works well in a pinch and is as cheap as your time. I have found that the smaller the calibre the better your lead should be.

Why bother with jacketed bullets? Isn't that more work? Why don't you use lead bullets with rifling marks?

 

Hey - I saw a guy at a range back in the 70's who scrounges range lead too. As well as scrouging anything and everything that will fit in his barrel, he especially likes 30-30 cases. He fills them with sand, plugs the case mouth with toilet paper and shoots those from his .50 caliber HAWKENS. He said the HAWKENS was really accurate with them due to the grooves in the barrel. Uh, huh. :winking:

 

[rrgr40]

Lead bullets with rifling marks are normally hard cast bullets from pistols, you can tell if it was a mini or maxiball. I go to a range where the state police qualify and will find alot of slugs from shotguns and they will have no marks. Alot of sabot rounds use a plain lead bullet and will have no grooves on the bullet. I usually get quality lead after cleaning and pouring into ingots. I shoot PRB.

 

[16gauge]

I cast handgun bullets, rifle bullets, shotgun slugs, and muzzleloading projectiles.
I use pure lead for the shotgun slugs and muzzleloading projectiles, including the round balls. While a patched round ball cast from wheelweights will work, it will definetly be harder due to the tin/antimony in the alloy and will not deform as readily as a round ball made of pure lead. I cast up some R*E*A*L bullets using wheelweights, and while they shot fine, they were definetly harder to load and push down the barrel of my BP rifle.
Antimony does not cause the bullet to expand...all molten metals shrink some on cooling. The antimony helps to decrease the amount of shrinkage and acts as a hardener (along with the tin in the alloy), esp. when the bullet is quenched (dumped in cold water just after it comes out of the mold.). The tin also helps fill out the sharper edges of the mold better.
As far as sources of lead go, since the EPA "discovered" that lead is a toxic substance, sources are really starting to dry up. I don't know if wheel weight metal could be fluxed or treated in some way to remove the antimony and tin, but that is a possiblity. One source of lead not mentioned is hospitals....usually there is a possibilty of getting some when hospitals are doing new construction, esp. if the area under new construction consists of the Xray unit. Lead is usually used to line the walls, and this stuff is usually thrown away. :: Another source is to find someone who casts for modern rifle and trade your wheelweights to them for pure lead (if they have it)...that way they don't have to add materials to the lead, and you don't have to remove materials from the lead. Scrounging from the rifle range is interesting....I bet there are literaly TONS of .22 slugs laying around back there that are probably almost pure lead as well.
MHO, FWIW.