Types of lead?

[bobthemotorcycle]

I have noticed on here comments about hard lead and soft lead.

What are some hard leads and why can I not use them? I understand they may produce higher pressures and more ware on the rifling but do they really do that or is it just say so?

What are some soft leads and why are they preferred?

 

[swathdiver]

For cap and ball revolvers soft lead allows the ball to transfer nearly all of its energy upon impact. It helps the ball to expand better. Soft lead also makes it easier to load the chambers, less stress on the loading levers.

Hard lead is used for cartridge ammunition.

There's more but this is the limit of my knowledge/memory.

 

[jamesthomas]

Soft lead is the pure stuff like shower pans and roof jacks. Hard lead is lead with some tin or some other metal mixed in like wheelweights or the lead thats inside jacketed bullets.

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

How do I tell the difference? Between hard and soft?

Can I shoot hard lead but it is just not common or is it a complete tabo?

 

[jamesthomas]

With soft lead you can score or make a groove in it pretty easy with your thumbnail and it will also make a dull thud sound when dropped on concrete, where as with hard lead you wont be able to mark it and it will make a higher sound when you drop it. Some folks use the hard lead when hunting big animals like moose, elk, and big Black Bears. It does'nt expand as fast and has better penetration than soft lead. If you cast both, the hard lead will have a little bit of a greater diameter(you will need a thinner patch for it.) and the soft lead will be about right on.

 

[Beerd2]

Soft lead = pipe
Hard lead = wheel weights

Neither one is going to wear out a rifle barrel



ps: don't try to salvage lead from car batteries, bad juju.
..

 

[AWsaddles]

I shoot both but I have different uses for both. As others have said hard lead is harder to load because it usually casts a few thousandths larger and is harder for the patch and rifling to conform around. I shoot small game with it and use it for plinking because I have an abundance of it. Soft is easier to load and is what I use when target shooting when i want consistancy and for deer because I'm looking for max expansion.

 

[mooman76]

For real hard lead there's monotype or Linotype. You can shoot hard lead RBs but you shouldn't in revolver for reasons stated. Conicals don't work well either for hard lead. It really depends on how hard and what you want to use it for. Soft is better if you can get it or you can trade someone the hard for the soft because cartridge reloaders/cast bullet shooters generally like the harder lead.

 

[Robert Egler]

Interesting you should ask. :grin:

I got interested in types of lead a year or so ago while casting some round balls for my revolver, just curious as to what difference various additives would have.

Sooo.... Types of lead (Pb): Naturally occurring lead is usually a mixture of 4 stable forms, three of which are radioactive decay products (but not radioactive themselves): Pb206, Pb207, Pb208. The other stable form is Pb204, which is primordial in origin. Pb208 is the largest component of naturally occurring lead.

Additional radioactive forms of lead exist but are rare.

When you have 'pure' lead you usually have a mixture of the 4 stable forms, it is 'soft'. Lead when exposed to air will oxidize and form a lead oxide coating.

Lead can be hardened by the addition of other elements, in order of making the lead harder (lowest hardness to highest hardness), the usual elements are tin, cadmium, antimony, lithium, arsenic, calcium, zinc, and copper. Actually antimony and arsenic are the most common additional hardening elements, with a very small amount of tin. Pure lead cannot be work hardened.

Wheel weights are much harder lead than pure lead. There is no standard for the lead mixture in wheel weights, but usually they have something like 3-4% antimony and 1% or less tin.

Modern bullet lead varies all over the place by manufacturer of course, a kind of 'average' might be something like 2-3% tin, 6-8% antimony, while shotgun shot usually has no tin but often has a small amount of arsenic. Arsenic and antimony mixed with lead will allow the lead to harden when it is rapidly chilled, dropping pure molten lead into water will not harden it.

I suspect that is more information about lead than you really wanted, and I may have managed to give you lots of information without actually answering your question; my students (and wife) often accuse me of that. :haha:

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

No, that is what I want to hear.

All this information is for C&P Revolvers

How can I get the tin and other elements out of the lead to make it a soft lead?

Also can I mix hard and soft lead together?

I may just decide to go with hard lead as I like solids in my regular rifles.

 

[Stobey]

Sorry, you can not remove tin or antimony from lead alloy. You can add pure lead to an alloy and that will soften your alloy up a bit.

Pure lead has a hardness of of 5 on the Brinnel hardness scale (BHN). Wheel weights have a BHN of 9 when allowed to be air cooled. Wheel weights can become a lot harder if cooled down quickly in water. This is called "water quenching".

Lyman's #2 alloy is still harder with a BHN of 15. Linotype is 22 on the BHN scale.

For shooting C&B revolvers you really want pure lead. Harder alloys will put a lot of stress on the loading lever.

For patched ball either pure lead or wheel weights are fine.

I use a 20:1 (lead to tin ratio) for bullets in my Sharps, and that would probably be OK for maxi balls. I think the 20:1 is a bit harder than Lyman's #2.

Steve

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

I have heard that Wild Bill Hickok was muled by a bear when his .36 cal ball bounced off the bears skull. I am guessing it must of been soft lead and it probably splatered. I do not want that to happen. If I have to shoot something I do not want it splattering off their bones. I know I probably never will shoot a living thing with my C&B Revolvers but I still like to practice with what I will use in a time of need.

What I will be doing in the long run is getting a 1862 Pocket Police in .36 cal and use modern propelents and hard lead to make a fine personal protection pistol to be carried in a shoulder holster. Wild Bill killed a man at 75 paces with one shot to the chest with a .36 cal 1851 Navy. I bet I can make a 1862 Police with modern propelents do some cool stuff. Maybe be able to get 9mm performance out of it if I try.

In the past my favorite carry pistol was a Tauras 85ch which is just a 5 shot 38 special snuby. I would like to put wadcutters in a 1862 police with modern propleants and see what happens.

 

[Stobey]

It is not a good idea to use modern propellants (smokeless powders) in a C&B. Way too much pressure!

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

I was getting ready for bed when I realized what I said so I had to quickly log back on.

When I said modern powder I did not mean smokeless powder but I ment modern black powder type propellants.

Whew....now I can sleep.

 

[F.G. Ford]

IF you use hard lead in a cap & ball revolver, you will bend or break the loading lever or shear the screw on the loading lever.
Soft lead only!
You can use a hard ball in a single shot pistol without problems.
If you use modern propellants in your cap and ball revolver, they should only be "Pyrodex, Tripple 7, or the like" modern smokless will damage your gun and you, or anybody else near you.
Old Ford

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

Thanks, I know what you say is true. I will stick with soft lead but can I load a wad cutter type bullet made of soft lead in these pistols?

 

[Darkgael]

I can make a 1862 Police with modern propelents do some cool stuff. Maybe be able to get 9mm performance out of it if I try.

Errr....no. Maybe you would end up with a bomb if you try that.
There is a good reason that those guns are marked "black powder only".
Modern smokeless propellants are basically plasticized nitroglycerin or are enriched with the stuff. Black powder guns are not designed to withstand the pressures of smokeless powder as already noted.
Pete

 

[AWsaddles]

At one time you could get a ball-et in that cal you could use but don't know if you still can.

 

[mooman76]

Lee makes a conical mould for BP revolvers. BP revolvers also don't have allot of room to load a bullet since they were designed for RBs.

 

[Stobey]

Remember that whatever projectile you use it has to be larger than the cylinder in order to seal the chamber off and prevent a chain fire. A chain fire occurs when all the cylinders go off at once. A .375 bullet is normal for a 36 caliber C&B.

Steve