U.S. Patent Firearms & U.S.F.A. Percussion Revolvers

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I don't believe U.S.F.A. had anything to do with the second or third generation Colt percussion revolvers. They made S.A.A. revolvers that were really sweet--and maybe still do.
 
rebel727 said:
mykeal said:
B. Miller said:
I have gotten this same reply on this topic from several sources. These revolvers were made from raw uberti parts. The parts were shipped to the United States then finished by USFA. They were also quite expensive.
Bruce

Which revolvers are you talking about?

Sounds like 2nd gen. Colt's. :confused:

Looks like he's not going to answer.

2nd Generation Colts were certainly not assembled/finished by USFA, and the USFA Remingtons are not (I don't believe) made from Uberti parts, so I was a bit confused as to what he was referring to. I'd like to know where he got his information.

USFA makes expensive, high quality SAA reproductions. Here's a link to their website: USFA
It's poorly done - very busy and difficult to navigate. Their guns, however, have an excellent reputation for high quality. It looks like their prices have actually dropped a bit lately. I could find no mention of the Remington on the site this time, but it was featured a few months ago, and they did have a press release about it at the Shot Show back in April, I believe.
 
Sorry I've been away for a while.
Mykeal and Rebel. This is taken from Dennis Adler's Colt Blackpowder Reproductions and Replicas. United States Patent Fire-Arms Manufacturing Company,which is now USFA an I believe the company name had changed by the time the book was published. It deals with their manufacture of blackpowder colt reproductions.
"Current manufacturer located in Hartford, CT. United States Patent Fire-Arms are manufacturing Colt reproductions in the original Colt plant at 25 Van Dyke Av.. Hartford, CT. Manufactured in Italy by Uberti, these guns are shipped in the white to US Patent Firearms for final polishing, blueing and color case hardening. The difference is a finished piece which shows signs of an original Colt."
 
Like the man said, timing is everything.

Adler's book was published in 1998. It's out of date with respect to US Fire-Arms Manufacturing Co., Inc. The USFA guns are indeed manufactured in Hartford. However, they are not being made at the original Colt factory, nor are they made from 'in the white' Uberti guns.

USFA did begin operations at the old Colt factory in 1993 under the name US Patent Firearms. In 1997 they changed to the current name and sold their interest in the factory to an investment group. They continued operations there through 2003.

USFA opened a new factory at another site in Hartford in 2001, reportedly because they couldn't get new NC machines through the doors of the old plant. Transition of operations from the old Colt plant was completed in 2003.

The USFA license with Remington states the guns will be 100% American made. In addition, USFA claims their current product line is 100% American made. While it may be that they began operations using Uberti parts and even assembled guns, that is no longer the case.
 
Well, I been able to get a little more information about USFA's percussion revolvers but still haven't found anyone who owns one. These revolvers may be rarer than I first believed. My biggest problem is why USFA will not respond to any emails, letters, or phone calls when ask about the production of percussion revolvers.

“mykeal” has provided more info about the company of today. Do you know what source I might go to in order to verify current info? I am enclosing a letter that I wrote to USFA, twice, without a response.



Replica Percussion Revolver
Collector’s Association
P.O. Box 2461
Claremore, OK 74018
Telephone: 918-341-3525
Toll Free: 866-322-6854
Web Site: http://rprca.tripod.com


November 2, 2007

Dear Sir:

My name is ----. I am the Founder and President of the Replica Percussion Revolver Collector’s Association. The purpose of this organization is to promote interest in the collecting of modern production, replica, blackpowder, percussion revolvers as used in the Civil War and on the early Western Frontier. The association is now twelve years old with an international membership approaching one thousand members. This association manages the largest collection of replica black powder revolvers in the world. Our Web Site is located at: http://rprca.tripod.com This Web Site has received over 550,000 hits since its introduction to the internet.

We have been researching the modern manufactured percussion revolvers for the past twelve years in anticipation of publishing a collector’s guide for the many collectors of these revolvers. Indeed, our research has shown that the collecting of replica percussion revolvers is one of the fastest growing areas of firearms collector interest. The major block to the growth of their collecting is the lack of information concerning the many different manufacturers and importer/distributors that marked their guns, and the different models each produced and marketed. We are in the final stages of producing the first edition of the guide and are attempting to verify the information we have. Since U.S. Patent Fire-Arms Manufacturing Company, now U.S. Fire-Arms Manufacturing Company is a major player we would like to have as accurate information as possible for our book. I have emailed the company in the past with very little success of obtaining this information. I even talked with your president at the Shot Show in Las Vegas, Nevada a few years back as well as on the phone. We are now at the deadline stage of publication and need your help.

We are in possession of the First Edition of your catalog but it is without a date so we are not sure when U.S. Patent Fire-Arms Manufacturing Company was organized. We also have the Dallas Shot Show announcements and price lists for 1996. The copyright date on an instruction booklet is 1994.

We also have specimens of the following revolvers.

1. 1860 Army with stag grips ”“ Serial Number 5197, fitted with two piece stag grips. NIB with original papers. Originally sold to Harry DeGeorge. Marked -ADDRESS U.S. PATENT HARTFORD CT. U.S. AMERICA - (Top Barrel) U.S. Patent (LtSd Frame)
2. 1851 Navy ”“ Serial Number 130988. NIB with Sleeve and original papers. Instruction booklet bears copyright date of 1994. Marked -ADDRESS U.S. PATENT HARTFORD CT. U.S. AMERICA - (Top Barrel)
3. 1851 3rd Model Dragoon in the white”“ Serial Numbers 1960 & 1961. New in original USFA black boxes with original wrappings. Marked Under loading lever: (Italian Proof Marks in front of) CAL 44 BLACK POWDER ONLY - A. UBERTIITALY. Very small lettering and very faint.

Information we seek is as follows:

1. What year was U.S. Patent Fire-Arms Manufacturing Company actually established. Who was the President? Are back issues of you catalogs and literature available?
2. We are aware, by second hand information, that Colt did not like your name and you were forced to change it to U.S. Fire-Arms Manufacturing Company. What are the true details? Was there a legal action that could be verified on the internet? This is of historical interest as well as the establishment of collectability and value of guns marked with the original name of the company. Were any percussion revolvers produced with the new name?
3. In the beginning you used Uberti parts and completed revolvers in your manufacture, but they were finished and reworked by you(same as Colt did continuously). Since we have two Uberti Dragoons in the white in original U.S. Patent Fire-Arms Manufacturing Co. boxes we assume this to be true.
4. Are there any records of the number of different models that were actually made and sold? Your 1st Edition Catalog show sixteen (16) different models, the same as what was produced by Uberti. How many models did you actually produce and sell? These numbers are extremely important in establishing potential collectability and value.
5. Did Uberti grant you special serial number ranges for your revolvers? The 1851 Navy with a 130988 serial number suggests that it did not as does the 1860 Army with a 5197 serial number. The consecutive serial numbers on the two 1851 3rd Model Dragoons also suggest this. We know that Uberti has always been notorious in their serial numbering of percussion revolvers. Indeed, we have observed Uberti revolvers made for different importers/distributors with the same number. This makes it impossible to speculate anything based on serial numbers in these guns. Only you can provide accurate information as to the actual number of models produced and sold, and their serial numbering.
6. The only revolvers that we have been made aware of by collectors and shooters on your own forums and other sources suggest that the only models ever observed were the 1851 Navy, 1860 Army, and the 1851 3rd Model Dragoon. Are there others? How many?

U.S. Fire-Arms Manufacturing Company has already established itself as a major player in the manufacture of historic firearms of the highest quality and it is for this reason that this information be shared with the firearms fraternity. Since you no longer produce the percussion revolvers it is even more important that this history be documented before all is totally lost. The sharing of this information will most certainly establish the percussion revolvers with your markings among the most desirable to acquire and the most valuable.

Thank you for your help,
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"...New in original USFA black boxes with original wrappings. Marked Under loading lever: (Italian Proof Marks in front of) CAL 44 BLACK POWDER ONLY - A. UBERTI ITALY..."
--------

Could they have decided you were a trouble maker?
After all, it's not nice to tell the world they are marketing some Italian reproductions. :hmm: :grin:
 
Zonie said:
...it's not nice to tell the world they are marketing some Italian reproductions. :hmm: :grin:

Should be were.

I say again: USFA now sells guns that are 100% American made.

bprevolver said:
Do you know what source I might go to in order to verify current info?
You might try Remington. The guns are being advertised on their web site: E. Remington 1858 New Army
 
OK mykeal, "were". :grin:

Looking at the link you gave is interesting. It says:

Remington Model 1875
38 Special, 38 & 44 WCF, 45 Colt,
7 1/2" barrel.

It would seem that the old Cap and Ball guns are not offered.
 
Look again there is a listing above the one you quote for a .44 cal 7 1/2 inch 1858. What I dont like is there is no price listing for them yet. Its hard to buy them if you dont know the price.
 
Ah yes. I see it!

Remington New Model 1858,
44 caliber, 7 1/2" barrel.

One would think that a company that is supposed to represent high quality and craftsmanship like U.S.F.A and Remington would realize that the original 1858 New model Army Revolver had an 8 inch barrel.

Even the Italian makers recognize this characteristic.
 
Yeah, this is all a very curious thing. They made a big deal about this last year, "leaking" information about their plans, then announcing the issue at the SHOT show, and now nothing, not even answering queries from their potential customers.

The only precedent I can find to this kind of corporate behavior is when a company finds that production tooling and processes are much more difficult to build/maintain than originally expected. I suspect they've either made the decision not to proceed with production (and don't want to admit it publicly) or are still trying to find a (reasonable) fix for whatever failure they encountered.

Remember the famous James Dyson quote about making 5,126 failures before he got his vacuum cleaner right. Should remind all of us 'experts' that you don't just slam together some dimensionally related pieces of metal.

Of course, I could be wrong. Perhaps they're just teasing us for the fun of it.
 

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