I picked up an older Western Arms marked .54 cal. Uberti Hawken. Does anyone have any experience with these? It has an odd size bore, a bare .530 ball will not fit down the bore. I can get a Lee .527 mold anyone know if this would be a suitable size? By the way, I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of this rifle! I have never seen a production muzzleloader built like this one! Thanks for any help.
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Uberti Hawken
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Ive owned one for about 25 years. It shoots a .520 round ball with a .10 patch. Very accurate gun. I've shot quite a few matches with it and done very well. It is a true .530 caliber as were quite a few of the original Hawkens. I use the Hornady swaged balls and buy them at about 3 boxes at a time. As far as I know there are no commercial moulds made now. There is a custom mould maker in England that will make you one. You can get the Hornady's at the Possibles shop. I shoot 120 grains FFg hunting and 90 at matches. Good luck with it, it is a great shooter!!!
irishjim
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I had a Uberti Sante Fe Hawkin about 10 - 12 years ago. The fit and finish of the gun was very good and with the 32" barrel and iron hardware made it look more like and original Hawkin.
It shot RB very well but I had to use the Hornady .520 swagged RB's with thick pillow ticking. The .530 & .535 RB's never would fit the barrel. If memory serves me correctly I shot 80 to 85 grains of BP.
I originally bought the gun to use on a western BP Elk hunt but could never find a conical to fit that odd bore. I wasn't that confident that a 210 grain RB would kill an Elk so I sold the gun. I ended up obtaining a TC Hawkin in .54 that could handle a 420 grain conical.
It shot RB very well but I had to use the Hornady .520 swagged RB's with thick pillow ticking. The .530 & .535 RB's never would fit the barrel. If memory serves me correctly I shot 80 to 85 grains of BP.
I originally bought the gun to use on a western BP Elk hunt but could never find a conical to fit that odd bore. I wasn't that confident that a 210 grain RB would kill an Elk so I sold the gun. I ended up obtaining a TC Hawkin in .54 that could handle a 420 grain conical.
I also own a Uberti Hawken 54 cal.percussion. Very well made. They called it the Santa Fe Hawken. I puarchased it many years ago from Track. It was the closest quality reproduction of a late Hawken made in Italy at that time. I think it came after the Navy Ithaca Hawken, which (I've been told) is also a fine copy, if you can find one. Uberti started to produce them again a few years ago, but I don't know if they still do.
Patriot
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I think Lee Precision makes affordable custom molds (Aluminum).
irishjim
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This was our first trip west and I had no experience with what we needed. I had killed several killed whitetail deer with a .45 cal using RB but had no clue about elk.
The outfitter we were planning to use was very adamant that if we intended to use BP he expected us to have a load that would deliver a minimum of 1000 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards. Apparently other groups he guided had used BP and RB had lost game.
The Lyman BP ballistic manual we used indicated the best we could expect with a 120 grain load of GOEX and a 220 - 230 grain RB was about 550 Ft/Lb at 100 yards.
I ended up using a Lyman conical, in the TC Hawkin, that was approximately 500 - 510 grains backed with 120 grains of GOEX. That load delivered just over 1700 Ft/Lb at 100 yards.
My shot on that trip ended up being only about 70 yards.
Although it was a double lung shot that passed through the bull he went over 150 yards downhill before crashing.
The outfitter we were planning to use was very adamant that if we intended to use BP he expected us to have a load that would deliver a minimum of 1000 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards. Apparently other groups he guided had used BP and RB had lost game.
The Lyman BP ballistic manual we used indicated the best we could expect with a 120 grain load of GOEX and a 220 - 230 grain RB was about 550 Ft/Lb at 100 yards.
I ended up using a Lyman conical, in the TC Hawkin, that was approximately 500 - 510 grains backed with 120 grains of GOEX. That load delivered just over 1700 Ft/Lb at 100 yards.
My shot on that trip ended up being only about 70 yards.
Although it was a double lung shot that passed through the bull he went over 150 yards downhill before crashing.
I have a Cimmaron Hawkin that must be the same as it will not take a .530 ball. I use .520 and tickin patches the gun is nice and shoots small groups if I do my part. I got a Tanner mould from England only took a little over a week and cost about $30. Lee said they would make a mould but if I remember it was about $120 cost because of the tooling necessary for a custom mold. The Tanner mould doesn't have a sprue cutter so you have to trim each ball takes a little extra time. Hope this helps I think Tanner (jeff) moulds may be found in the Links section.
Fox :thumbsup:
Fox :thumbsup:
flaming canvas
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If I remember correctly, the Hawkens that are marked Western Arms were .53 cal. The company had to stop production when Winchester sued over copyright infringement.
Mine is marked Allen FA Mfg Santa Fe NM and is a 54 cal on the top flat and has AUberti stamped on the left side. A real shooter with 100 gr 2f .535 ball and .015 patch.
Mine is marked Allen FA Mfg Santa Fe NM and is a 54 cal on the top flat and has AUberti stamped on the left side. A real shooter with 100 gr 2f .535 ball and .015 patch.
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I understand there is a guide/outfitter in New Mexico won't guide fellows using slugs in muzzleloading rifles, and recommends patched round balls only.
: We've proven many times over, that LARGE big game dies very quickly with double lung hits from round balls. We've also proven that 48" twists and maxiballs wounds LARGE big game without killing it well at all as the penetration canont be taken for granted. They become unstable upon impact and travel at odd angles throughout the body. A patched round ball travels in a straight line whereas the slugs from 48" twists don't. It is possible that in a .50cl. cal 48" twist, short a 250gr. slug might work just fine, and perhaps a 350gr. slug form a .54 48" twist might work just fine, but 410gr(or whatever .54 maxiballs are). from .54's and 370gr. from .50's just don't work well on LARGE big game.
: Deer are NOT considered to be LARGE big game in this posting.
: We've proven many times over, that LARGE big game dies very quickly with double lung hits from round balls. We've also proven that 48" twists and maxiballs wounds LARGE big game without killing it well at all as the penetration canont be taken for granted. They become unstable upon impact and travel at odd angles throughout the body. A patched round ball travels in a straight line whereas the slugs from 48" twists don't. It is possible that in a .50cl. cal 48" twist, short a 250gr. slug might work just fine, and perhaps a 350gr. slug form a .54 48" twist might work just fine, but 410gr(or whatever .54 maxiballs are). from .54's and 370gr. from .50's just don't work well on LARGE big game.
: Deer are NOT considered to be LARGE big game in this posting.
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I too, have an Allen FA Santa Fe, with a 1-48 twist. I use a .530 ball and .015 patch with 85 gr of FFFg. My best ever group was a single caliber sized hole at 50 yds after three shots and it will regularly shoot under 2 inches at 100 if I do my part.
irishjim
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The New Mexico regulations restrict muzzleloading hunters to no in-lines, no sabots, no pellets, no scopes, etc. I suspect the outfitter is just making sure his clients are well within the law!
Your comments make me wonder were your information comes from? My actual field experiences in taking over 60 deer and eight elk in the past thirty plus years using modern firearms, muzzleloaders, and archery don't jibe with your statements.
My post wasn't a condemnation of RB! I have use PRB for whitetail deer in Ohio multiple times. I don't know where your information cames from that conicals don't travel straight but nothing travels straight when it starts hitting bone! I can attest that PBR "DO NOT" travel straight when hittin deer size game! I shot a deer with PBR in the RF shoulder and found the ball in the ham! Each kill I've made with a muzzleloader was different in respect to animal reaction, tissue damage, wound entrance and exit, etc.
I also archery hunt and a double lung shot with an arrow will kill just about anthing that walks the earth. Who always make a perfect double lung shot irregardless of method? I know that is always my objective but not always reality!
My post was relating my tenderfoot experience on our first BP Montana elk hunt in the late eighties. As with the New Mexico outfitter we were working within the regualtions of the state we hunted and recommendations of our guide!
:imo:
Your comments make me wonder were your information comes from? My actual field experiences in taking over 60 deer and eight elk in the past thirty plus years using modern firearms, muzzleloaders, and archery don't jibe with your statements.
My post wasn't a condemnation of RB! I have use PRB for whitetail deer in Ohio multiple times. I don't know where your information cames from that conicals don't travel straight but nothing travels straight when it starts hitting bone! I can attest that PBR "DO NOT" travel straight when hittin deer size game! I shot a deer with PBR in the RF shoulder and found the ball in the ham! Each kill I've made with a muzzleloader was different in respect to animal reaction, tissue damage, wound entrance and exit, etc.
I also archery hunt and a double lung shot with an arrow will kill just about anthing that walks the earth. Who always make a perfect double lung shot irregardless of method? I know that is always my objective but not always reality!
My post was relating my tenderfoot experience on our first BP Montana elk hunt in the late eighties. As with the New Mexico outfitter we were working within the regualtions of the state we hunted and recommendations of our guide!
:imo:
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I bought two navy Ithaca Hawkin in 1985 still have one gave the other to a friend. I shot three balls at 100yards each ball cut half of the ball beside it. They looked like they were strung on a string.
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How did I do that? I guess it was a senior moment?
Pioneer flinter
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That is for the restricted muzzleloader hunt. The regular muzzleloader season you can use any muzzleloader and any bullet.
