Uberti Leech and Rigdon

[Geraldo]

I was snooting around on a different forum and found someone selling an Uberti L&R at a very good price. After kicking it around a while, I bought it.

It's not correct in that it has the Colt Navy scene on the cylinder. Apparently Uberti used to make them with plain cylinders, but it's cheaper to use the same cylinder on Colt's and L&Rs. The reason I almost passed on it was that it's an L&R copy, not a Colt copy. Finally I decided that since it's really only the barrel that makes it different from an 1851 I didn't care. Now it's grown on me. If I can get a day without thunderstorms I'll have it out on the range this weekend. :thumbsup:

 

[kwilfong]

That was a new one on me. I googled it & learned a little :hmm:

 

[Bob Riegl]

:v Nice even though not a colt copy ( though I wouldn't know the difference) so much for me :wink: . Now mebbe you could educate us as to the differences ( it's always nice to learn something new. ) Anyhow it's a nice piece and will look great in your collection. Congratulations. I am adding a Uberti 1851 Navy to be side by side with my 1861 Navy--it's been ordered. I'll post here when it arrives with some pix. Thanks for sharing :thumbsup: "Doc"

 

[Zonie]

When people think of the Confederate revolvers made during the CW they think of the brass framed pistols.

Leech & Rigdon pistols were made with an iron frame and closely matched the Colt 1851 Navy the most noticeable difference being the Dragoon style round barrel.

Another difference was the early models did not have the milled cap relief in the recoil shield.

Of course, being a Confederate pistol no effort was made to roll engrave the Colts Navy scene on the cylinder.

It is believed that Leech & Rigdon made their first revolvers in 1862 in Columbus, Mississippi where possibly aound 400 pistols were made. They moved in 1863 in Greenboro, Georgia where around 1100 additional pistols were produced.
Around the end of 1863 the Leech & Rigdon company broke up and Rigdon moved it to Augusta, Georgia. There, manufacturing of revolvers continued under the name Rigdon & Ansley.
Some of the guns produced under that name had 12 cylinder stops rather than 6, the additional 6 being used as a safety.

For a great deal more information read the chapter on the Leech & Rigdon in the book "CONFEDERATE HANDGUNS" by Albaugh, Benet and Simmons.

 

[CaptainKirk]

As usual, Zonie The Walking Dictionary comes through and saves us hours of research on the internet!
Thanks, Zonie! :thumbsup:
And Geraldo, very nice piece of artillery. Can I shoot it when I come down to camp out in your carport? :rotf:

 

[Zonie]

The old "Walking Dictionary" got to thinking and figures that a lot of folks are thinking, "What about all of those Confederate Brass framed Colts we keep hearing about?"

They were made by many different companies but the most often thought of was "Griswold & Gunnison"

This is the company who is credited with asking local churches to "loan" their brass church bells to the cause.
The bells were indeed loaned to the Confederacy with the Methodist Church and "Christ Church in Macon, among others being on record as to have given up their bells.

The company was located in Griswoldville ( no, I'm not making this up) Georga near Macon.

These guns like the Leech & Rigdon used a round Dragoon style barrel because it was easier to make than the octagon barrels on the Colts, mounted on brass frames.
The cylinders were "twisted iron" many showing twisting marks on their exteriors. It was thought that twisting the steel would improve its strength.

There were over 3,500 pistols made by Griswold & Gunnison.

All of these Confederate pistols were supposed to be made to match the Colt 1851 Navy including its .36 caliber. Most of the Southern companies built their guns to these requirements, Speller & Burr being the only true exception. Although the contract was quite specific about the guns configuration Speller & Burr based their guns on the full framed Whitney but, that's another story. :grin:

 

[Geraldo]

As usual, Zonie The Walking Dictionary comes through and saves us hours of research on the internet!
Thanks, Zonie! :thumbsup:
And Geraldo, very nice piece of artillery. Can I shoot it when I come down to camp out in your carport? :rotf:

Of course you can shoot it. If you come during the summer, I can even offer an upgrade on accomodations. My neighbors are going north for the summer, and you can stay in their place. You'll just need a couple of tools to get in the door. Try not to leave pry marks. :rotf:

 

[Geraldo]

:v Nice even though not a colt copy ( though I wouldn't know the difference) so much for me :wink: . Now mebbe you could educate us as to the differences ( it's always nice to learn something new. ) Anyhow it's a nice piece and will look great in your collection. Congratulations. I am adding a Uberti 1851 Navy to be side by side with my 1861 Navy--it's been ordered. I'll post here when it arrives with some pix. Thanks for sharing :thumbsup: "Doc"

Thanks to Zonie for the history lesson. :bow:

As far as repros go, the only difference between Uberti 1851 Navy, 1861 Navy, and the L&R is the barrel and loading lever. Although older Uberti L&Rs had plain cylinders. I really like the Dragoon style barrel, but I wouldn't turn any of them down.

 

[Don]

I'm not a stickler for PC and that is just one darn good looing revolver.

Don

 

[CaptainKirk]

Of course you can shoot it. If you come during the summer, I can even offer an upgrade on accomodations. My neighbors are going north for the summer, and you can stay in their place. You'll just need a couple of tools to get in the door. Try not to leave pry marks. :rotf:

What say I just poke out a window, unlock the door and get the glass replaced? That way, I can come & go at my leisure.
On second thought...I hope your neighbors aren't my folks.....? :shake:

 

[ebiggs1]

I am no HC/PC kinda guy but I do have limits. I could not stand the obviously incorrect engraved scene on my Uberti L&R so I removed it!

Most likely the extent of my HC side. As a revolver, in it's own right, it is a nice one and I like shooting it.

 

[Geraldo]

I got to the range today. As usual everyone there was shooting black rifles and AKs, at least until Geraldo showed up.

I went to the rifle range because pistol looked to be full up, and shot rifles first thinking that the pistol range would clear out. Wrong.

So I thought to myself, I've got a bench right here, and who needs to shoot C&B at 15 or 25 yards anyway?

I then loaded up and shot two cylinders full into the following group.

For full disclosure, I had the butt of the pistol resting on bags. The front sight is not a blade, but a tapered post that belongs on a shotgun, not a pistol, but it is what it is. It is certainly combat accurate at that distance, and in fact it was a better group than the AK/AR boys next to me could produce with their rifles.

 

[Greg Hardy]

I have an old CVA Wells Fargo brass framed revolver kit. Since Colt never made a brass framed revolver, I took one of the two cylinders for it, polished off the 'hold up scene' engraving and am calling it a Griswold/Gunnison Staff Officer's Model prototype...just for laughs.
Actually, the pistol is very accurate out to twenty yards with a fifteen gr. fff charge.

 

[junkman_01]

Zonie,

You mentioned church bells being used for "brass" framed revolvers, but were they really brass as we know it today?
Bells are made of bell metal....

From Wikipedia,
Bell metal is a hard alloy used for making bells. It is a form of bronze, usually approximately 3:1 ratio of copper to tin (78% copper, 22% tin). Bell metal ore is a sulfide of tin, copper, and iron called stannite.

I have a Winchester reference book that states that the so called "brass" framed Henry and '66 Winchesters were not brass, but were "gun metal".

From Wikipedia
Gunmetal, also known as red brass in the United States,[1] is a type of bronze ”“ an alloy of copper, tin, and zinc.[2] Originally used chiefly for making guns, gunmetal was eventually superseded by steel.

So it makes me wonder if what we see today as brass framed guns are really true to the real metallurgy of the period.

 

[Zonie]

I really don't know what the alloy of the original Confederate guns was.
There were and are dozens of different alloys of brass's and of bronzes. If you look at the chemical compositions of these you may find that the "brasses" and "bronzes" even overlap one another.

There is little doubt that the Confederacy was hard up for metals and they tried to reserve their iron for the things that really needed it.

I guess if I wanted to say something that I am pretty sure of it is, the modern Italian reproductions are not made out of the same alloys that were used by the Confederacy. :grin:

 

[ebiggs1]

:hmm: The music store, manufacturer, I work for as a maintenance man has more different “kinds” of brass than I ever knew existed. Plus they claim they can easily tell the minute differences in them.

 

[Norinco]

I read somewhere that (I think) Griswold & Gunnison revolvers sometimes had a pinkish frame because they tried adding additional copper to stretch their supply of brass.

 

[junkman_01]

My point is that if the ORIGINAL brass framed guns were made of an alloy of brass like gun metal or bell metal, they were stronger than the pure brass framed guns we can get today.

 

[Greg Hardy]

Guess this is one time where the original metallurgy was a bit superior to modern...

 

[Zonie]

For what it's worth, I found one alloy which comes close to your Bell Metals Cu 78 + Zn 22 called C84400.
It is Cu 72-81, Zn 9-24, Pb 3-7, Sn 1-3.

It is designed for casting with a Tensile Strength of 34-38 KSI*, Yield strength = 13-15 KSI, hardness = 45-55 (500 kg Brinell)

The Red Brass you mentioned is C23000, Cu 85, Zn 15.

It is listed as a wrought material so it may be hard with higher properties. The hard condition material has a Tensile strength of 70-88 KSI, Yield strength = 57 KSI, hardness = B77 (Rockwell) (124 Brinell 500 kg)

IMO, it is unlikely that the Confederates had a lot of red brass or Gunmetal on hand so it is unlikely that they used if for their pistols.

As I mentioned there is no way of knowing what alloy the replica guns are made from and the properties of cast copper alloys can vary from a low Tensile strength of 17 KSI to 100 KSI with a hardness of Brinell 35 to 225 (500 kg).
This basically means the Italian reproductions could be stronger or weaker than the original Confederate guns.

I know the Italian brass/bronze guns are cast as I have built several kits.




*KSI = 1000 Pounds per square inch.