Ultimate flintlock

[ebiggs1]

I have been watching “Ultimate Weapons” on the Military channel. I am waiting for them to rate flintlocks but so far they haven’t so I guess we must do it here on the forum.
Starting with the best of the best, tell us your candidate for the top flintlocks of all time.
I am going to say the Brown Bess has to be near the top if not number one.


If you have not seen the program it takes into account accuracy, cost, power, ease of use, etc.

 

[Tom Compton]

The American Long Rifle !!!

Pennsylvania
Kentucky
Tennessee
Southern Mountain
and the list goes on.

TC

 

[hexblade]

+1 on American long rifle

 

[mlr]

I would vote for the Brown Bess also. In those days the weapon had to be stout enough to be used as a pike or club after it was discharged. The military rifle had to have a bayonet to be effective in battle. The American Kentucky rifle would seem a bit frail to me for use in close quarters.

Michael

 

[trent/OH]

I agree. Regarding cost, power, and ease of use, the Brown Bess was a winner. As to accuracy, it was adequate for it's intended use. And it served as a first-line infantry weapon for a century or so across the globe.

 

[dyemaker]

It also had a bayonet.

 

[dave_person]

The French military models 1763,1768, and 1777 were technically superior to the Brown Bess. They were also superbly designed for their purpose and were historically significant. However, the Bess was used in so many areas of the world that it is probably the most historically significant flintlock in the world. With respect to beauty and architecture, the hands down winners are the American longrifle and 18th century English sporting guns.

dave

 

[bamajim]

The Bess was a great weapon for a long time but the American rifled long rifle pertty much made it obsolete and the British full well understood this. The smooth bore muskets only lasted approx. another forty years before it was starting to phased out by the rifled muskets. A lot of this was due to the toll the Long rifle took during the revolution.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

My vote goes to the Indian Trade Guns. They were inexpensive and reliable under very harsh environments with minimal maintenance.

 

[Coot]

The French 1768 & 1777 may well be better designed but based on numbers produced, number of battles used as a primary weapon, toughness of build & longevity of design, I have to go with the Brown Bess as the ultimate flintlock weapon.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

The Bess was a great weapon for a long time but the American rifled long rifle pertty much made it obsolete and the British full well understood this. The smooth bore muskets only lasted approx. another forty years before it was starting to phased out by the rifled muskets. A lot of this was due to the toll the Long rifle took during the revolution.

In many ways what you say is true Bama, but the two - the smoothbore musket and the rifle - both came to an end as military weapons at the same time. They were replaced by the same weapon, the Rifle Musket that combined the length and ability to use a bayonet as well as the ability to rapidly reload of the smoothbore musket and the rifled bore of the rifle. In truth, the smoothbore musket actually out lasted the rifle as a military weapon as the musket with it's bayonet was used longer than the rifle that made it useless when rapid loading became necessary and it's lack of a bayonet was always a problem in warfare during the 18th and 19th Centuries. The British, the French, the Germans, the Dutch as well as the Americans all understood this.

Oh, and my vote is for the banded Charleville Pattern musket used by the French and the Americans and other nations in Europe as well - anywhere French influence was seen. Maybe not as beautiful as "Queen Bess" but just as durable and in many ways even stronger as well as much lighter and easier to handle when using the bayonet.

 

[colmoultrie]

I'd go with the Baker, based on the criteria that you mention. While it does not have the Bess's length of service, it combines the ruggedness of the military musket with the accuracy of a rifle, and it mounts a bayonet. It was used on both the European and North American continents until 1836 or later (Alamo, anyone?), and was from most accounts an excellent weapon.

 

[TGJaeger]

I would offer up the English Baker rifle as one of the top military flintlocks. It was used from about 1800 to the 1840's. The British army loved them and were reluctant to give them up when they were declared obsolete. They were still being used into the 1850's I believe that they still hold the honor of the longest tenure of service of any British long arm.

 

[ebiggs1]

So, let’s see, I think we are about here:
1.Brown Bess
2. French Military muskets (various models)
3. The Baker
4. American Long Rifles (in general)
5. Indian Trade guns.

Is this about close?

You know if you ever saw this program, no gun scores perfect in every category.
It is going to be hard to come up with a flintlock that served as long as the Bess did so it must of had something going for it.

 

[chuck-ia]

I would have to go with the trade gun. Lots of history behind that gun. flinch

 

[hanshi]

The longrifle, hands down; no front line 50 yards apart for me.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm going to have to go with the Bess. The American Longrifle was superior in many ways but even General Washington didn't take it serious as a main battle weapon. They had to be defended by regulars to prevent their positions from being over-run in a battle and so became scouts and anti-Indian units. Washington ordered most of the rifle corps disbanded and issued Besses to them.

More fascinating because they were unique and specialized. But it wasn't 'till a rifle could be loaded faster they caught on as a main battle weapon. They did prove that a sniper is worth a lot more men when applied properly, but they don't take and hold ground like the Bess did.

And the original thread didn't specify what region of the world. The Bess went everywere.

On the third hand, this is the Flintlock Rifles forum. So I'll go with the Pennsylvania Long Rifle as taming the wilds of the NorthWest Territory to the West of PA into Ohio.

 

[Tommy Bruce]

Ferguson rifle for innovation has to at least rate an honorable mention. Let's not leave the Jaeger out either.

 

[dyemaker]

Civil War "sniper" rifles deserve merit also. They were the forerunners of the "slug gun" competition rifles which I think are the ultimate muzzleloading target rifles. Some of the British "volunteer" rifles used during the Civil War were the cutting edge in their time also. All of these are percussion arms tho. The Brown Bess surely ranks amongst the greatest.