Ultimate pistol

[zimmerstutzen]

I always wondered why some guys fish with 2 lb test line. Why handicap one self? Why use a bow and arrow for hunting big game? Assuming a proper gun built for round ball smack down, I have no problem with the concept. It may be very hard to attain. Generally, muzzleloading pistols were a personal defense and follow up shot weapon, not a primary hunting item. In days of yore, a person would not have ventured out for big game so undergunned, unless that was all he had, and a crude self-made bow would have been more likley to be used. Pistols were generally light for ease of carrying one's gear. A heavy mountain man magnum, they weren't.

I have a TC Scout pistol, hardly a traditional weapon. Yet I was extremely surprised at the weight of the thing very heavy. I was also surprised at the Muzzle velocity and energy with a round ball, according to their tables. It seemed almost too good for a short barrel gun.

 

[Greg Hardy]

I have an old CVA Hawken pistol, .50 cal, 1 in. across the flats. 12 in. barrel. It will take quite a load with both rb and maxi. 50 yd groups were about 2 1/2 inches from a rest. I will tell on myself, I used a Lee REAL bullet on top of 90 gr FF, accuracy was acceptable, but recoil was NOT! It was on about the same level as full house .44 Mag in a Super Blackhawk only without the ergonomics. I have no doubt that it would take a whitetail, but I WILL NOT try it.

 

[himem777]

Sounds like what I need. :thumbsup:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Sounds like what I need. :thumbsup:

You sure are stubborn. A whitetail is not even as tough as an elk calf.

Use a rifle!

Most of my friends think i'm nuts for using a .54 Renegade with a PRB for elk.

I'll say it one more time. Stop thinking of yourself, and think of the animal. It deserves a quick kill.

 

[himem777]

Not really, he was nice enough to post, so it would be impolite not to give an reply. Truth is I already have a rifle barrel for my next project. It will be a light carbine. But It sounds like a nice gun for dear, and some day i would like a pistol for that. For now I need a lite elk gun.

 

[Darkgael]

TC Contender 30-06 is the best for the job.

No T/C Contender chambering for the .30-06; the T/C Encore...yes.

Elmer Keith...I have always thought that the famous/infamous 600 yard Elk shot was more than a bit of a stunt. IIRC, Keith required multiple shots and was unsure of any hits until the animal was found. The animal, though, was dead; no arguing that point.
About energy requirements, etc. Some years ago Ross Seyfried wrote an article for "The Double Gun and Single Shot Journal" in which he describes stalking, shooting, and killing a female elk with a single shot rifle chambered for the .455 Webley cartridge. Even from a rifle, the Webley round is no powerhouse. That was kind of a stunt too but, like Keith, he did pull it off.
The best choice so far - "best" being relative - is that Fire and Iron pistol in .58 or .62.
Pete

 

[Zonie]

Gentlemen:
We DO NOT DISCUSS MODERN CENTERFIRE ARMS ON OUR FORUM.

An occasional reference to modern firearms with the intention of making comparisons that most people can relate to is sometimes permitted however extending the discussion into one which deals with the modern arm is not.

 

[himem777]

Zonies right, I only asked if an Ultimate Pistol that could be built in a traditional manner.

 

[poordevil]

I say Yes. And it should not be that big a deal . I think .58 cal.would be great. I do not have a .58 cal pistol but I do have a .54 great plains pistol that I have no doubt would do the job.

Saw handled pistols are very traditional and would be more than accurate.

I will not give any of the too often given provisos re: range and so on. If someone is capable with the pistol,, then he will know what to do when the time comes.

 

[pargent]

Get yourself acopy of Lymans blackpowder loading manual ,there is all the info you need to answer your needs in the manual.You will have to do some cross referenceing but it should be lots of help.

 

[Dphar]

I was reading about a mister Elmer Keith who was able to take a elk at 600+ yards with a .44mag hand load. How much energy can a .44 mag have at 600 yards, a lot less than a .50 cal with a good sized load at 50 yards? That is unless Mr. Keith was lying. It has been tested so I do not think so.

Actually it was a Mule Deer.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Keith did a lot of things people who either have not tried or simply cannot do and as a result want to infer that Keith is a liar.
Dan

 

[Pete Gaimari]

After turning down my handshake Dan. I've got nothing left to say to you.

I put you in with Mike Brines now. :shake:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/257258/tp/3/

 

[DNS]

It's also stated somewhere in Keith's book's or his writings, he killed an elephant with five shots from a 44mag. He also stated he feared for his life before the elephant dropped and did not want to repeat the experience again.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I have a friend who put 5 shots from a 44 mag into a Grizzly, and it kept coming. (Alaska)

 

[himem777]

I guess it boils down to the shooter, his shot placement and bravery. :shocked2:

There is no way I would use a .44 on a Grizzly, if there was a perfectly good long rifle close at hand.

 

[Darkgael]

Zonie: See my PM regarding my earlier post about Ross Seyfried and the elk.
Thanks.
About Elmer Keith - here's a link to an article by Keith himself detailing the incident. http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=34
As noted earlier by another poster, it was not an elk; it was a mule deer. Yes, it had been wounded by Keith's hunting partner - a leg wound. Keith shot at it four times and hit it twice. The animal survived both hits and was finished off by Keith's hunting partner, Paul Kriley.
The point of the reference here is that pistols are marginal hunting weapons, even in the hands of experts and especially at long range.
The point of the earlier reference to Ross Seyfried was that even low-power/marginal weapons can be effective at close enough range when the shot is perfect.
Pete

 

[Deadeye]

Matchlock, It's a moot point anyway if you are planning to hunt Elk in Utah because the Fish & Game have made the decision for you. NO MUZZLELOADER HANDGUNS REGARDLESS OF HOW BIG and CF handguns must have 500 foot pounds of energy at 100 yds.for Elk hunting. The muzzleloading handgun ,of any size, can't be used for a coup de gras shot either. The Utah F&S aren't as dumb as they appear sometime.
Deadeye

 

[himem777]

It funny that this thread has lived so long. In the beginning I asked what would be the ultimate pistol for a specific need. The popular consensus was that that pistol exist... and its called a long rifle. Then it has lived on as a treatise on the validity of hand gun hunting at all!!! I am not complaining I think it is funny. :rotf: :rotf: :haha:

Just so you know there is a minority view. Some have privatively shared their views as to the ultimate pistol. It is a shame that they had to do so privately so not endore the scorn of a minarity view.
PS: I do not think anyone here is advocating hunting at anywhere near 400 ft

 

[Pete Gaimari]

The scorn would be coming from the majority view. Not the minority.

BP pistols/revolvers are great for small game.