Underhammer Actions?

[Mark Herman]

Plainsman,
There is one for sale on ALR right now that is a very good buy. If you can swing it I would buy it.
Mark

 

[Mark Herman]

My mistake, it is on muzzleloading forum

 

[Mark Herman]

Following up on my pros & cons;
For handling and shooting I shoot both. H&A in table matches and Allen in chunk matches. They can't be compared to offhand as they are from a rest. I do shoot trap with a H&A action with a 36" vent rib barrel and use the standard butt, with a shallow comb riser. I shot them offhand years ago and found the drop a bit radical. The standard Allen butt has a higher comb and might be more comfortable without modification. It depends on your physical build and neck length. Either one can be used as is.

 

[Plainsman53]

Mark,
Thanks! That was the kind of information I was wanting. Thanks for the heads up on the rifle for sale but I was too late and missed it. I've got a man that trades a lot watching for me and I'll probably put my own ad on in a while and see what I can find.

 

[Mark Herman]

Glad I was able to help. Be careful be safe.

 

[Brent]

I really dont have a choice on actions if I get their complete kit except the H&A or Allen

Doesn't Pecatonica or Log Cabin sell the Billinghurst underhammer kit any more?

They did a year ago when I last looked.

 

[lonewolf172]

Doesn't Pecatonica or Log Cabin sell the Billinghurst underhammer kit any more?

They did a year ago when I last looked.

Pecatonica River only sells the H&A and Allen with their under hammer kits. Here's a picture their kit showing all the parts..

 

[Mark Herman]

They still sell the Billinghurst "kit" action. The other option is Deer Creek Products in Waldron Indiana, they have finished rifles and kits and I'm sure they have the 3 screw actions.

 

[toot]

UNDER HAMMERS RULE! go to the UNDER HAMMER SITE & check them out. there a lot of guys in the FRATANITY. I own 6 of them, for more years than I can remember.

 

[lonewolf172]

They still sell the Billinghurst "kit" action. The other option is Deer Creek Products in Waldron Indiana, they have finished rifles and kits and I'm sure they have the 3 screw actions.

I don't see the Billinghurst "kit" listed plus since I am retired living on a budget money is an issue. Also I really like the simple design and function of the H&A action.

 

[JIMHAY97]

Just curious about why you want the nipple in front of the breech plug. How about a Patent breech plug? The reason I'm asking is because I'm nearly complete with a scratch built rifle and I used a Patent brech plug.

I called it the wrong type of breech plug. What I should have said was a "Faeton" breech plug like RJ Renner makes. I made mine from a Grade 8 bolt. Turned and threaded to 5/8-18 thread. I picked up a H&A trigger and hammer, plus a length of barrel off Ebay. The rest of the rifle I'm making. Main spring is proving to be a challenge but I'll get it. The receiver is a piece of brass milled to a tapered octagon. It's a fun learning process.

 

[hawkeye2]

I called it the wrong type of breech plug. What I should have said was a "Faeton" breech plug like RJ Renner makes. I made mine from a Grade 8 bolt. Turned and threaded to 5/8-18 thread. I picked up a H&A trigger and hammer, plus a length of barrel off Ebay. The rest of the rifle I'm making. Main spring is proving to be a challenge but I'll get it. The receiver is a piece of brass milled to a tapered octagon. It's a fun learning process.

I understand the setup now, I was thinking of adding a patent breech between an H&A action and the barrel. That looks like a great setup. I also see you are scratch building the entire gun too. How about opening a new thread detailing your work? I, for one, would be interested.

 

[Mark Herman]

I would be contacting Deer Creek Products. They deal in the whole H&A line of products and I think you will find them more flexible to deal with.

 

[lonewolf172]

Sorry guys I have another question. I watched a video and the guy had what appeared to be a Pecatonica River under hammer that he built some years ago. What was interesting was he loosened 3 screws and was able to remove the barrel. Later I read an article and in it it said that was 2 ways to attach the barrel. 1 was the 3 screw method and the other to pin the barrel permanently. So my question is. Which one is more reliable and strongest?

 

[hawkeye2]

Numrich originally used a tapered pin going through the action and breech plug from right to left. The current H&A actions use 3 allen set screws, one form the top and one from each side to lock the breech plug in place. You could modify the newer actions to take the tapered pin, a bolt or machine screw, or a threaded breech plug and possibly a few other ways too. One method is about as god as the next. If you ever wanted to remove or change barrels you would want the rear sight mounted on the barrel with the possible exception of the tapered pin method.

 

[Mark Herman]

Why wouldn't you want the sight on the barrel of a tapered pin action? Either way the barrel comes off and if the sights are not on the barrel it would have to be re sighted each time the barrel is re installed. I prefer the 3 screw actions, I feel they are more secure unless the pin is replaced with a through bolt.

 

[hawkeye2]

Actually I didn't say you wouldn't want the sight on the barrel of a gun with a tapered pin action, I said that gun was an exception meaning you could put the sight anywhere. Numich offered different models with a rear sight (peep) on the action over the years. Driving a tapered pin in a reamed and tapered hole should restore the barrel to exactly the same position. I had a Winchester 75 target rifle with Readfield sights and I found I could remove and reinstall both the front and rear sight with no change in the POI. I have no problem with the 3 screws and it probably is the better method of attaching the barrel.

 

[Mark Herman]

I have one of my 3 screw actions with a long bar base on the barrel extending to the rear. In order to remove the barrel, with the sight, I drilled a hole through the mounting bar to get at the top screw.

 

[Wayne Lundstrom]

Back in 1985 my wife bought me a H&A 45 cal kit from H&A then located in Hawthorne NJ for Xmas. Walked right in the factory and left with my toy, still have it today. Tapered pin. Any idea on what barrel they were using back then and how this era H&A rates? Was this the original H&A factory?
Thanks!

 

[Brent]

I called it the wrong type of breech plug. What I should have said was a "Faeton" breech plug like RJ Renner makes. I made mine from a Grade 8 bolt. Turned and threaded to 5/8-18 thread. I picked up a H&A trigger and hammer, plus a length of barrel off Ebay. The rest of the rifle I'm making. Main spring is proving to be a challenge but I'll get it. The receiver is a piece of brass milled to a tapered octagon. It's a fun learning process.

Interesting, but I wouldn't want that either if at all avoidable, and I think it is.