underhammer build - stock question

[ncsurveyor]

Got a 54 caliber underhammer build going on using this lock :

I got the lock inletted, and the breech plug/tang fit, indexed, and inletted.

Was going to start some stock shaping, narrowing the foreend and such before doing the ramrod groove and hole, when I got to thinking.

Most percussion and flinters have the area around the lock wider to accommodate the lock and associated symmetry, but since this is an underhammer, no such widening is really needed.

Is the widening in that area really all about the lock? Or can I just keep it narrow all the way, and blend it to the wrist?

So far, the plan is this: With a 42" barrel, the foreend comes to within 12" or so of the muzzle. I was going to place a ramrod pipe near the muzzle, then groove the first 16" of the foreend for the ramrod, then drill the last 16 or so inches to where it would abut the nipple and flash cup.

I don't see any reason to really have a pronounced widening under the circumstances.

Thoughts?

 

[necchi]

Is the widening in that area really all about the lock?

Well yeah kinda.
It's all about all the stuff that's inlet in that area, the lock the trigger(s), the tang,,,
All that stuff requires wood to be removed for the inlet right?
So much so that if they where much narrower, the stock would simply break, crack or fracture from normal use.

But in the case of the underhammer, your right, it is a bit different and they are "narrower". There is little need for the width of the "lock panels" on an underhammer.

 

[Billnpatti]

Because you are not trying to make an HC rifle, the final shape is up to you. You just need to figure into the shape the "Needs" such as the minimum width needed to accommodate the lock and the depth of the forestock needed to accommodate the underbarrel lugs and the ramrod channel. After building my underhammer, there are a couple things I would do differently. First, I would include a tension spring to hold the ramrod in place and secondly, I would put a pin in the ramrod channel just in front of the nipple so the ramrod would not touch the nipple. When this happens, it keeps the hammer from striking the cap and you get a misfire. A flash cup will prevent this from happening but, I found that putting a nipple in my rifle with a flash cup was a real PITA. I have large hands and fingers and it is nearly impossible for me to get my fingers into the flash cup to screw in the nipple. If you are going to use a flash cup, you will need to make a nipple wrench that is straight like a nut driver so it will reach down into the recess of the stock and flash cup and make removal and replacement of your nipple a lot easier.

 

[ncsurveyor]

I got oodles of spring material for making V springs and such for old shotguns, so a tensioner for the ramrod is a simple issue, as is a stop block prior to the flash cup - but I appreciate the reminder. It was on my mind, but now its in my notebook, so I can keep it up front when I do further work.

I got wee digits, so getting to the nipple isn't too hard, but I'm still thinking of a few innovations to improve access. We'll see what I come up with.

I'm not much of a "historically correct" type. Have all suspicions if I was born 200 years earlier, I would have still tinkered with whatever I had going.

Aside from a few family "passed downs" and a factory MkV, I tend to build or mod anything I can. Come to think of it, I bedded the Weatherby and sanded off the speed bump, so I guess it's been mod'ed too.

Made a SxS 45 colt with fully rifled 21" barrels. Nothing correct about that gun except that it shoots small groups and will outright blow holes through everything with a 280gr SAA.

I went through a lot of muzzleloaders and just couldn't get in a groove with anything, which is the main reason I decided to build one.

Hope it goes well.

 

[44-henry]

Historically correct or not it looks like a nice lock mechanism. Did you build that, or is it a commercial version I am not familiar with? Depending on how the rifle was executed, it could have a definite historical flair to it, even the coil spring design was not unknown in the 1800's and it would be covered up anyways. I would suggest some form of liner around the nipple to avoid burn marks on the stock.

 

[galamb]

Is this what you are thinking, or not this severe?

 

[Richard Kemp]

Unlike a side hammer rifle, the underhammer action doesn't require the "beefy" sidepanels to strengthen it. Google "The Underhammer Society" to see some examlpes of other's underhammer projects.

 

[ncsurveyor]

Historically correct or not it looks like a nice lock mechanism. Did you build that, or is it a commercial version I am not familiar with?

It's an allan foundary type. He had made a bunch that were enclosed that looked like a highwall or lever gun receiver from the side, but redesigned it to a trigger plate only.

Since I have to use a longer nipple to fit what I have designed, I'll integrate a flash cup with the spacer to protect the lumber. I have some 1.25" round naval brass I'll make one from scratch.

To galamb, this is what I envisioned, courtesy some photoshop.

The wood I have is black walnut, but looks a lot more like mahogany than I remember BW looking like.

The barrel is 42", so in the long run, if she feels to front heavy to handle, I'll take her down some. The extra long foreend will make it easier to trim if need be.

 

[Woodbutcher]

NC, would you provide info on the source for that UH action. Very, very interesting! Thank you.
Woodbutcher

 

[ncsurveyor]

This is all the actions
http://www.thegunworks.com/custpro...ctions&SubCat2ID=259&do=list&Cat1Name=Actions

this is the actual one I am using:
http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=1041&do=detail&Cat2Option=yes

If you peruse the main list, you'll see what I am talking about that most look like this:

with the breech threads being different, and there's a target model with a larger breech bolster and no half-cock.

then there's the one I am using:

which does have a half cock.

 

[ncsurveyor]

One thing I did notice is that on the model I am using, the front action screw hole is set high enough, that any design that does not actually have a tang sitting directly on that flat portion will create sufficient distance between the bottom of a barrel and the hammer to almost require a long thread nipple.

I was thinking of making a squirrel rifle later, and might rework a hammer in order to be able to angle the whole action to facilitate a pistol grip.

The hammer rework would be done to ensure a perpendicular smack on the nipple.

But that's down the road a spell.

 

[galamb]

The barrel is 42", so in the long run, if she feels to front heavy to handle, I'll take her down some. The extra long foreend will make it easier to trim if need be.

Or if you like the long barrel (I personally love 42" or more hangin' out the front) you could always bore a couple of holes in the butt end, under the butt plate and add some lead to bring some weight back.

As long as it balances well you don't tend to notice an extra pound or so, although, if I'm carrying a rifle over 9 lbs for any distance, my body "yells at me" rather loudly :grin:

 

[ncsurveyor]

my body overall is OK with the weight.

It's just my left arm; it tends to let me know it's displeasure.

Not that I listen. My SxS build is 11 pounds.

(5kg for those sophisticants north of the border. :wink: )

 

[ncsurveyor]

how about an update?

Been a slow go lately, what with family and power outages stemming from that old hag, Mother Nature, but I managed to get some work in.

In review, this is the ultimate goal, or close to it:




This is the work in progress. Yes it looks rough, but I haven't got the shaves, planes, and sandpaper out yet. There's a LOT of wood yet to come off.

routed a barrel channel:



good fit:




I inletted the action and the first part of the tang (no pics), and once I have done forming the wrist, I'll bend the tang and finish inletting on that.

I routed a 3/8" channel in the foreend area. This will set me up for a 9mm rod. Also facilitates using the 3/8 steel rod I have for either forming a spade bit, or welding a drill bit to, in order to do the rod hole through the forearm.


I had a little side cut misadventure earlier, so I used a flat piece of rectangular channel to act as a router guide (I had to shim it in a few places to to make sure my channel stayed center with the barrel), and from front to back, over 14", I'm off about 1/32" to the side, so all in all, the ramrod should still be well placed by the time I hit the nipple. It looks a little off center at the end, but that's poor photography on my part.



Then I started thinking about a butt, other than my wife's.

I really like the style of the schuetzen's but that lower hook isn't conducive to hunting, nor is my old body got that much curve in it, so.....

A little mapp gas, leverage, dremel, saw, and filing and I got something I kinda like. (It's got a lot of soot and marks on it from being shaped, and from shaping to the stock, but it'll clean up nice.)

Straightened it out a bunch, and upturned the hook some.




The top hook now fits nicely over typical shirt, hoodie, and hunting jacket, and should help support the weight.

I got out the candle, and blackened the inside up and got to fitting to the stock.



It looks like gaps, but that's soot and shadow. Right now, there is very little light left between the two. I'll work on where I want my screws, than shape the bottom tip, both brass and wood together, once its set. Then start working the stock from butt to wrist.

Final length of pull is about 14"

Here's a shot of the current overall, sans barrel and hardware. (Again, not sure why there appears to be a hump in the foreend, but it isn't there in real life - I need photography lessons)



Side note.

After watching the Hunchback of Notre Dame with my daughter, we both thought that a gargoyle cut in brass, would look great at the forearm/foreend junction, with an open mouth for the ramrod to pass through.

My wife is dubious.

 

[frogwalking]

That sounds great. The best thing (perhaps) about building an underhammer is you have little to no pressure to build it PC. Build it like you want it. This is the true art, do not copy anyone.