Underhammer nipple blowout!

[neil]

The nipple of my .45 cal. H&A underhammer blew out, stripped out when I pulled the trigger.

Can I repair this, oversize nipple or other repair, or is my barrel just shot?

Thanks

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

I think it could be re threaded and a larger nipple installed. Possibly it was the wrong size to begin with, and you could just chase the threads for the proper size nipple. Were you hurt? Sounds like a non - fun event to me!

 

[neil]

Well it blew into my hand just below my thumb and drew some blood. I also picked some threads out of my hand.

All and all I was more ****** my gun was broke!

I never did find the nipple, and it was VERY loud. my ears were ringing.

 

[Zonie]

An old Dixie Catalog (1980) says the H&A rifles used a .245-32 thread for its nipple.
If yours is that size, and it took out the threads with the nipple, you will have to go with something with at least a .285 thread. Even this is marginal because it will only give you .020 high threads.
Dixie sells a .285-28 nipple for "shotguns" but they don't list a tap for it being available.

The next standard size is a 5/16-24 but this is a musket size nipple so it would need musket caps.
It would also be higher than the nipple you have so the hammer alignment might be off a little.

As your gun is a .45, another option is to drill and tap the hole for the 5/16-24 thread or a 3/8-24 thread.
Build a plug with that thread on the outside, screw it down into the barrel so it is just flush with the inside of the bore and then drill a 1/16 dia hole part way down thru the threads. Drive a 1/16 inch dia pin into the hole and file the whole thing flush with the outside of the barrel.
Then retap a .250-28 thread in the center for a standard nipple.

If you like, rather than pinning the plug in place, you could use a locktight compound which would not only hold the plug in place, but it would seal the threads so extra gas would not leak out when the gun is fired.

If your not up to this much work, take it to your friendly gunsmith. He should be able to do the job without any problems.

 

[Rebel]

I'm pretty sure that someone makes a standard #11 nipple to fit the musket nipple threads. I may be wrong, but i think i recall seeing one somewhere. So if you drilled and tapped it to 5/16-24 you may still be able to use a standard nipple.

 

[arcticap]

The incident sounds like it could have been potentially worse. I'm curious about more details though. How old is the rifle, is it an original H&A, Numrich, or Repro? What kind of load & powder were you shooting? Isn't the threaded area (thickness) in the nipple hole pretty thin there to begin with (my H&A's is)? I had replaced my nipple with an Uncle Mike's a long time ago and shimmed it with a washer due to it's length. I'm glad your injury wasn't more serious.

 

[neil]

More details

Its a Numrich H&A model the Offhand.

Im shooting, or was shootong 70 g of ffg pyrodex,and .440 horandy ball, been working fine for 3 months. Is that too much??

Yes it seems pretty thin where the nipple threads into.

Thanks for all your help guys.

 

[arcticap]

There is an outfit that has been auctioning, selling & building underhammers on[url] auctionarms.com[/url] for a long time that seems very reputable. He has kits and parts etc...and currently has many auctions going. He recently had an Offhand for sale, although expensive. His phone # and contact info. is in this ad I am posting here. His expertise may help you since he does custom work, if you don't mind spending the money.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6782328

He may help fit you a barrel, etc...You have nothing to lose by asking. (He is an underhammer expert) Good Luck.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Track of the Wolf sells Five different oversize taps for blown nipples.

1/4-28 +0.005" up to +0.025" in 0.005" increments for $13.95/ea. They also have the oversize nipples in stainless and Ampco. I don't know if a thread blown to the extent that it's fully stripped is able to be rethreaded sufficiently to hold up.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

That load should NOT have caused any undue stress on the gun or it's components. It sounds like it was a manufacturing defect, but there isn't any recourse there.

They do indeed make 5/16-24 (musket) threaded nipples that will accept #11 caps. They are made for Civil War type muskets to use in the event of not being able to find musket caps--but being able to find #11 caps to keep the gun shooting. I'm trying to remember where I got mine--but I think Natchez Shooter Supply was the place. It's been a while though...

Glad it was not more serious an event and that you were only slightly injured.

The barrel wall thickness on that .45 cal. gun should be almost 1/4", so I don't exactly understand the comments about it is "pretty thin" where the nipple threads into. Maybe you could explain that a little more for me. You got me curious now...

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[neil]

Barrel wall thickness is thick, but where the nipple is threaded it is recessed into the barrel, thus giving only about 1/8 inch material to thread into.

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greeting ZREX,

One possible fix is to re-tap the nipple hole for a musket nipple.

The standard nipple thread for American rifle nipples is 1/4-28 TPI. I believe the musket nipple thread is a 5/16-24 TPI. This is the standard National Fine Thread and it should be easy to find a tap of this size.

You might have to drill the existing hole out to a slightly larger size before tapping. The correct drill size is an "I"
This is an alphabet drill size and has a decimal equivalent size of 0.2720 inch.

The disadvantage of the musket cap is the additional flash back on your forearm, and the NMLRA and TMLRA does not allow musket caps to be used in rifle competition. However, I am thinking that I have seen a rifle nipple with a musket thread. Maybe somebody on the forum might know something about this.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

 

[Slamfire]

My Numrich is threaded to a .250-32 nipple, perhaps some one tried to put a standard one in and messed up the threads. eace:

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Slamfire,

I honestly do not know what size nipple threads H&A used. I would hope they had enough manufacturing sense and enough American marketing sense to have used the standard 1/4-28NF thread. But who knows what they were thinking?

Another possibile solution is to unbreech the barrel, cut off the barrel breech past the nipple threads, rethread the barrel breech and re-install the breech.

That is not much of a machining job, provided the breech plug does not have a non-standard NC OR NF thread.

If ZREX has some machining ability and access to a lathe or a good friend who has both, I have a good idea, but it is not a quick fix.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

 

[juano2001]

The H and A's are threaded 1/4-32, this has led to numerous blowouts because of people threading 1/4-24 nipples in somewhere along the line. I got this from Bruce at[url] underhammers.com[/url] and from personal experience as well

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Juanvaldez,

Thanks for the confirmation on the H&A nipple thread information.

I still question H&A's reasoning to use the 1/4-32 thread for the American sales market, particular if it going to contribute to confusion and be the possible cause of a nipple blow-out.

In most cases, the average American black powder shooter is not too savy about picky details like the difference in nipple threads. The average store sales person is not much more knowledgable either.

Usually, when a rifle passes from the hands of the first owner, the manufacturer's instructional papers have been discarded or lost, and the new owner does not have this vital information.

It has always amazed me how manufacturing companies can manage to set themselves up for legal reprocussions and do it rather easily.

That is one of the really great things about this forum. Let somebody ask a question, and at least, one of the forum members is going to have the answer.

All of you gentlemen out there like Juanvaldez stand up, take a bow and enjoy the applause of appreciation for good information.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

 

[jimbo15563]

You might want to call Ron Blomquist at 1-800-337-1243. He makes custom nipples and might be able to solve your problem. His website is:

Blomquist Percussion Works

Jimbo

 

[fho]

Try the Log Cabin Sport Shop at Lodi, Ohio, they may have one 5/16- 24 nipple for #11 caps.
Olie

 

[nhunter]

TOW sells #11 size nipples with musket size (5/16 x 24) threads. I use one on my Enfield so I can shoot #11 caps.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

Barrel wall thickness is thick, but where the nipple is threaded it is recessed into the barrel, thus giving only about 1/8 inch material to thread into.

:huh:
Then we are trying to compare apples and oranges, my friend.

That is strange--but then maybe it isn't. Is it because your rifle is a Numrich manufactured model--whereas mine is a Deer Creek manufactured copy?

History...
I got my underhammer rifle about 3yrs ago from Union Creek Muzzleloading (drop shipped from Deer Creek). Never had any problems with it, and it is a favourite of mine. I just love how simple the design is, and it shoots quite well.

On my rifle...
There is NO recess where the nipple goes into the barrel. The barrel wall thickness is approximately .250 there; and I just pulled the nipple and checked it again.

That is why I was so "gob smacked" when you spoke of "thin barrel wall"; but it's obvious that your's is designed somewhat differently.

Would the rest of y'all comment as to whether your underhammer rifle has the recessed nipple or not, and which manufacturer made it?

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly