Underhammer Rifles?

[SgtSchutzen]

I know nothing about these other than they are so ugly they`re cool :grin:. Anyway, yesterday I found one for sale for what I think is cheap. It`s a Hopkins & Allen type with tang rear sight and a target type globe front. Actually I would have bought it yesterday except I only went in the shop to grab a can of Goex and didn`t have enough cash on me for the rifle.
I guess what I`m asking for here is a little insight from you guys that might have some experience with this type rifle. Any pros or cons to the design? Do you like them? Why or why not? What are they usually worth if in good shape? I did alittle price checking online yesterday and the only one I could find, recently sold on GB for $350. This one is alot less than that.
Pretty sure I`m going to run back there Monday and grab it if they still have it because I don`t usually run across good deals like I think this is.

 

[Bruce Bogart]

If it is in good shape they make a fine little shooter. My nephew has one and enjoys it greatly!

 

[hawkeye2]

They made one with a .45 caliber long heavy barrel (relative to most H&As) with those sights which they called a traget rifle. If that is what it is grab it. H&A/Numrich had excelent barrels though the bore tends to run a little undersize. The guns are simple but parts can be a little hard to find at times. Take a VERY close look at the "hook" on the trigger. This is the part that engages the notches on the hammer and they are sometimes found broken off. It should be quite long and have a finished end, it is the equivalent of the nose of the sear. A broken one will often still function and pass a quick inspection but it will dammage the notch in the hammer and could also cause an unsafe situation. After you have bought it and found out how well it shoots be prepared to spend a lot of time defending your choice to your friends at the range, you are about to become an outcast.

 

[SgtSchutzen]

That target model sounds like what it might be. It is pretty long barreled and in .45cal. I`m sure hopeing nobody else snatches it up before I have a chance to get back there and check it out better.

 

[M. De Land]

I have one I made out of a Buggy rifle with the short 20 inch barrel.
I put a one inch Green Mountain barrel on it in .45 caliber and did away with the tapered take down pin through the action by making a combination barrel plug that threaded into the end of the action.
I used to not like it for target work as most of the shooting is done offhand and I have burned my wrist many time with it. I finally made a successful nipple flash divert-er that allows me to shoot without burning myself any longer.
I is a very accurate rifle and now is my main competition gun. I'll see if I can get up some pictures of it for you.

 

[M. De Land]

Note where the tapered take down pin used to go through the action I now have a set screw on each side so if I want to take it apart I back these out and un-thread the action from the barrel plug back half.
You will see I took the hammer thumb cocker off as well and use a deer antler point to cock it with. It is just a competition gun not for hunting.
I have a .58 Hawkin hunter from Navy Arms and a .54 Hawkin Thompson Center with a Douglas barrel for hunting.MD
MD

 

[SgtSchutzen]

Thanks for the pics M.D. Getting burned by the nipple flash is something I never thought of. I can see how that might be a problem. Something else I just thought of... The caps would have to be a snug fit or they`d fall off the upside down nipple. Realistically if I get it I probably won`t shoot it that much as I`m not a target shooter and have other guns for hunting. I just like it because it`s different and cool.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I sold them in my shop in the late 1970's and my family pretty much grew up shooting them. My wife has stacks of medals she won shooting a buggy rifle. I had one of the heavy barreld target rifles and much regret selling it. They are simple and reliable. The barrels were quite good and much contributed to their accuracy. For strickly target use, I stoned the sear to a very light pull. At the time parts were easy to come by so a different one could be inserted for hunting. H&A made a flash diverter cup. I'll betcha I still have one in my old parts cabinet.
BTW, a properly fitting cap will not fall off, there is no need for concern.
And, another BIG BTW: The use a different nipple than regular sidelock rifles.
My friend learned that the hard way recently when a wrong nipple blew out and hit him in the wrist. He was lucky in that he only got a black powder (permanent?) tatto from the experience, the nipple could have shot into his arm.
There is a company that sells some parts for those undywhackers. Do a search here, it was discussed not too long ago.
If you buy it, you will enjoy.

 

[Zonie]

My old 1980 Dixie catalog says the nipple for these H&A underhammers uses a .245-32 thread.

Assuming the nipple thread has not been frinkled with it would use a nipple like this one:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/produ...14114&osCsid=cdd9e3b399751ff68ef946b4a034dc19

 

[bob308]

they also made a offhand model which had the peep sight and globe front. it is a little shorter and lighter then the target.

i have one i barreled with a hoyt barrel in .45. it is part round part oct. 32" long 1 1/16 at the muzzle. i use it for offhand work. have won many matches with it.

 

[hawkeye2]

Track of The Wolf has a good selection of nipples here:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Cate...D=14&subID=171&styleID=785&PageSize=25&Page=4

The nipples come in different lengths to match the barrel wall thickness. and they also have flashcups.

 

[MercerLake]

:v The Target model did not have a fore-end, just a bare barrel. The Offhand Model did have a fore-end with similar sights. I always (well when I remembered & it would remind me) used a leather glove to protect my wrist from the flash. A properly fitted cap will not fall off the nipple. I sold mine years ago for something else that caught my eye at the time. The .45 is a great shooter, killed lots of sage rats. If I remember it used a .430 Rb. Simple rifle never had a problem with mine, wish I still had it. :v

 

[M. De Land]

I have one of those funky little funnel flash cups and still got the manure burned out of me. I finally just had to invent one because when I offhand target shoot I draw my support hand wrist clear back to the flash guard and support the arm with my rib cage. This is the only devise I have ever used that I can shoot in sleeveless shirts and not get burned. It is held on by the nipple and bottom shaped to the bottom three flats on the barrel.I milled it out of solid brass.
I once smelt something burning and looking around found the sleeve of my Carhardt jacket on fire from nipple flash. :haha:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Track of The Wolf has a good selection of nipples here:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Cate...D=14&subID=171&styleID=785&PageSize=25&Page=4

The nipples come in different lengths to match the barrel wall thickness. and they also have flashcups.

Yes, and TOW will give a prompt reply with the exact nipple you need if you have concerns.

 

[SgtSchutzen]

Thanks for the insight and info guys. This rifle I`m interested in has a wood forend for sure and I think also a brass patchbox in the stock. Not sure about the patchbox though. I should have just went back and snatched it up when I was in town the other day but I kept trying to convince myself I don`t need another rifle right now :nono: This gun though is something I`ve never seen befor (except online) and is interesting, cool, and cheap. I think I`ve got to go back and try to get it.

Yeh...Rifleman1776 Track is a good outfit. I buy stuff from them every once in awhile. Never had a problem.

 

[BillinOregon]

Zonie: Thank you for adding the verb "to frinkle" to my vocabulary!

:haha:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

One real advantage and why I have looked for a good used one, is that my Dad and Brother are both left eyed, while I am right eyed. So I was hoping to get one in .54 or better yet, .58 for my brother so he can shoot elk with it in New Mexico. It allows me to "borrow" it if I go out to visit. :hmm: The other nice thing about the design is that it's very simple, so less moving parts = less breakdown potential.

LD

 

[zdogk9]

You're about to gain another addiction. You can get parts from, Fire and Iron
http://www.fire-iron.biz/
or Blue Grouse http://bluegrouseblackpowder.webexone.com/login.asp?loc=&link=

 

[SgtSchutzen]

Yeh...The simplicity of the design is what has me intrigued by it.

 

[SgtSchutzen]

You're about to gain another addiction.

Your probably right :grin: :haha: That`s the last thing I need right now. Thanks for the links.