Understanding Stumpy's Moose Juice/Snot

[markinstettler]

I'm trying to understand Stumpy's Moose Snot and Milk recipes to the best of my ability. My goal is to be able to use acceptable substitutes if that achieves some value, particularly if any of the ingredients become unavailable for some reason or another.

So the castor oil's purpose is fairly obvious: It's the lubricant. But why castor oil? Why not mineral oil? (I know the answer to that one.) Could a tallow or lard be used? Lanolin? Cottonseed oil?

The Murphy's oil soap is used for it's detergent or surfactant qualities. Stumpkiller suggests that Pine-Sol would work. How about dish detergent?

Beeswax makes sense. I can't think of any non-petroleum derived waxes that could substitute. Any ideas?

I have no idea what the Witch Hazel is meant to achieve. It's an astringent and anti-oxidant. Hmmm... Maybe I've answered my own question there.

The alcohol seems to be a drying agent. Seems like grain alcohol would do the trick too. Not sure I'd ever use grain alcohol in the place of isopropyl, but it never hurts to know your options.

Apologies if I seem like I'm over-analyzing. It's what I do for a living. :hmm:

 

[sneakon]

I'd also appreciate a detailed explanation of ingredient purpose.

 

[mike alexandre]

If you do a search you will find all SKs reasons as to why he arrived at the mix for each of his potions.

 

[Bob Riegl]

:hmm: The addition of beeswax is to turn the liquid (castor oil) into a "soft" paste or waxy patch lube. The amount of Castor Oil to Beeswax will determine whether or not it will turn to mush in hot weather and a solid wax in cold weather. Much the same is accomplished when you render bear fat and mix it with beeswax. As far as Murphy's soap and Witch Hazel, I basically see no absolute use for either of these ingredients in Moose Snot. I use both Bear Grease and Moose Snot. You could also use olive oil and beeswax for the same reason. Oil is the lube, the process of cooking with beeswax only turns the oil into a semi-solid, with wax-like characteristics. Moose Milk, on the other hand is used as a bore wipe to reduce fouling, but could also be used as a patch lube---too thin for my thoughts---if you add Murphy's and/or alcohol to Moose milk, mebbe the soap could help in clean-up. For my use of Moose milk, it's simply water soluble oil and water with some denatured alcohol to help solubility, it's a Chemist" sort of thing. :thumbsup:

 

[markinstettler]

I've been searching through the archives to glean what I can. There was a discussion of castor oil and mention of the witch hazel in:
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/196332[/url]

There's more discussion of witch hazel and some mention of the Murphy's oil soap here:
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/194967[/url]

Apparently, Stumpy chose castor oil because it is known to stand up to heat well. The witch hazel was added because it keep the oils from separating and helps the oil "smear" onto metal better. The oil soap only really comes into play when the gun is cleaned with water. With the soap in the mix, the water can easily wash the oil away.

Fascinating stuff.

 

[AZ-Robert]

The Murphy's oil soap is used for it's detergent or surfactant qualities. Stumpkiller suggests that Pine-Sol would work. How about dish detergent?

Check the ingredients of your dish soap before you use it as a substitute. Some (most?) of them contain salt.

 

[bramble]

OK, so the soap is a variation of the old boy scout trick of putting the soap on the bottom of the pot before cooking to aid clean-up.
bramble

 

[markinstettler]

Bramble, you had me scratching my head for the last day. You see, despite being a Boy Scout for many years, and using the soap on the bottom of the pot trick, I kept imagining the soap on the inside of the pot. Whatever recipe you're cooking adding soap to the mix will give everybody a bad case of the runs. :nono:

In other news, I think that peanut oil might be a good facsimile of castor oil in the recipe. It has a very high flash point. I'll have to check to see if it's any cheaper.

 

[coehornboy]

Once again, I am amazed at the simplicity of the product and the science behind it....Moose Juice works soo much better than any of the store bought stuff, including in artillery, and now we know why.

Thanks for the explanation!!

 

[bramble]

Fireside bottom of the pan, to deal with the soot of a campfire. Otherwise, the pot is not the only thing that gets cleaned out. :rotf:

bramble

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've been searching through the archives to glean what I can. There was a discussion of castor oil and mention of the witch hazel in:
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/196332[/url]

There's more discussion of witch hazel and some mention of the Murphy's oil soap here:
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/194967[/url]

Apparently, Stumpy chose castor oil because it is known to stand up to heat well. The witch hazel was added because it keep the oils from separating and helps the oil "smear" onto metal better. The oil soap only really comes into play when the gun is cleaned with water. With the soap in the mix, the water can easily wash the oil away.

Fascinating stuff.

Sorry I'm late here, but it looks like you found my prior answers. The Moose Snot is simplicity, 8/2/1 of Castor/Beeswax/Murphy's oil. The castor I chose because of my observations in how it passes through internal combustion engines and doesn't tar or lose it's lubricity. Finding the mix that didn't get runny in summer or too hard in winter was the only "trick". Castor oil is also the only vegetable oil besides jojoba that mimics animal oil, but it does so without spoiling. I get it by the pint for $4.99 at a local hobby shop ("Sig" brand for adding to methanol for model airplane fuel). This is the "white" grade and seems to work as well as the human consumption/pharmacutical stuff that is $1.89 for four ounces.

The Moose Juice was a little more work. The Witch Hazel tip actually came from a lube Superflint posted years ago. When I was toying around with steel strips for rust with various lubes and lube components I found it added enough to the "smear" characteristics that I decided it was worth keeping. The astringent qualities also keep the oils and fats in suspension so they don't bead up on the metal but flatten out. Murphy's oil soap, a soft soap (aka "saddle soap") is an easy way to at least try to keep the lube consistant with 1780's apocathary technology (I just came up with that terminology :grin: ). I doubt it would have been bothered with as bear fat/grease/oil was common, as was sperm whale oil, but I tried. Castor oil was too, for medicinal and as a lamp oil (pre-kerosene days, remember).

I like it, I use it, and it has served me well. I can go 15 shots with the Snot from ball-blocks that don't leave my hands and clothes yellow and greasy without stopping to wipe and that makes me as happy as all get out. The semi-dry strips double-dipped in the Juice are very easy to carry and load as needed, another big plus. I did this for my own use, but am happy to share.

As you noted, when you clean with soapy water you are removing the oils. I wipe with B.C. Sheath and again the next day. I'm trusting a $2,700 rifle to this and it's still happy after more than a year - and it goes hunting in Upstate NY deer season where it gets the occasional rain and sleet, and pesters small game and cans the rest of the year. No wall hanger this.

 

[Slamfire]

Bramble, you had me scratching my head for the last day. You see, despite being a Boy Scout for many years, and using the soap on the bottom of the pot trick, I kept imagining the soap on the inside of the pot. Whatever recipe you're cooking adding soap to the mix will give everybody a bad case of the runs. :nono:

In other news, I think that peanut oil might be a good facsimile of castor oil in the recipe. It has a very high flash point. I'll have to check to see if it's any cheaper.

Cookin' with castor oil don't require no soap. :rotf:

 

[playfarmers]

I have read this thread with great interest, so much so that I made a batch of moose Snot. I hope to try it out over the holidays. I have a question though. Would Ballistol work instead of castor oil?