Unmentionable guns

[dragnetbill]

I will try to keep this short; back when I was still on the job my department was going to re-open an old range for convience and cost savings.
The land directly behind the berm had been developed into a public park.
I went for a walk behind the berm and started picking up lead slugs (pistol wadcutters and semi-wadcutters) that had left the range. Most had deformed at an angle indicating that they had struck the berm or the ground in front of the berm before taking flight from the range.
I was well inside the park boundry and still finding bullets while waving at the moms strollering their crumb cruchers.
Lunch was over so I paced back to the top of the berm from the last slug I had picked up; 300 paces.
That range was not re-opened, but some eyes were.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Some conditions make ranges dangerous. soil, whether level, slope of the back stop, I shoot my black powder pistols here on my own range. There is a 30 foot high bank behind the targets for a back stop. The wooded hill continues upward for another 40 ft elevation beyond that and there are no buildings in that line for over two miles. I do not shoot any smokeless loads here. There are three gun clubs within 4 miles and each has a much better range. I was a member of one, but let that lapse because of "too many idiots" at the range. Saw a guy firing a 1911 at about 45 degrees into the air, as he was trying to explain how to shoot to his companion. Getting hit by hot brass from the pray and sprayer at the next position was also not fun.

 

[Col. Batguano]

.... I often wonder what the attraction is shooting 250 grain pills over 150 grains in a seven pound gun given Newton's third law.

To prove Darwin's first? :rotf:

 

[coloradoclyde]

.... I often wonder what the attraction is shooting 250 grain pills over 150 grains in a seven pound gun given Newton's third law.

To prove Darwin's first? :rotf:

Yup!....Gotta do sumptin between Budweisers that proves a man's mating potential to the rest of the herd.... :haha:

 

[52Bore]

After reading it, I find the subject is not really about unmentionable guns. It is about guns shooting slugs and the long ranges they can fly.

The second reason I don't like the title is, muzzleloaders have been shooting slugs from the 1840's and their guns and bullets are fair game for discussion here on the MLF.

As for using scopes, yes, I agree that special shooting matches for them should be set up if they don't already exist.

Even if special matches are set up for telescopic sights, I think there should also be a "Unlimited" match that allows either type of sights.
This would allow open sight shooters and telescopic sight shooters to compete directly with each other.

Thanks for keeping this topic open.
There are different matches for scoped ML, for the reasons given.
From the recent Book "The History of the NMLRA" it appears scopes have been on Slug guns since the NMLRA started (1933). An early photo looks to be a Unertl (which started in 1934). So, my question: when did scopes/tubes appear on ML?

 

[Wes/Tex]

Charles Wilson Peale, the famous painter, kept a record in his journal about his attempts to mount a telescope on a rifle in 1776. In the end the attempt failed because of the focal length involved in standard telescopes and the fact that rifles recoiled. :wink:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Sure, sure ,sure.....But if just one person shows up to a match or shoot with a scoped gun it would not be statistically or historically representative.
It's like everyone showing up to 1800s car show driving a Tesla instead of a Parker or Flocken...

I would also make the distinction that, "Slug guns" or even "chunk guns" or even "over the log guns" are not the same as modern unmentionables.

Does the NMLRA have rules defining scopes on rifles? or have they thrown them out the window as well?

 

[52Bore]

Charles Wilson Peale, the famous painter, kept a record in his journal about his attempts to mount a telescope on a rifle in 1776. In the end the attempt failed because of the focal length involved in standard telescopes and the fact that rifles recoiled. :wink:

1776 !
Guess I should have thought about 'glass' making in those days and the problems associated with focus... still earlier than I would have thought..
Thanks

 

[meanmike8665]

Yes, there are separate aggregates,matches and rules. There is even a couple of aggregates that allow anything goes.

Michael

 

[Rifleman1776]

neighborhood located about half a mile or less downrange.

Nutty to even consider putting the range back in operation without, at least, a 200 foot tall backstop. :2

Reminds me of the modern gun club I used to belong to. The 100 yard range had a ridge just beyond the target line. On the ridge was a trailer house. We could see children playing the yard. One day some members went over there and talked to the owner/father. They found chunks out of trees where bullets had hit and bullet holes in the trailer. The owner wasn't the least bit bothered by all this. I knew the guy slightly and will only say he didn't impress me as being the smartest guy in the county.

 

[Zonie]

...
Thanks for keeping this topic open.
There are different matches for scoped ML, for the reasons given.
From the recent Book "The History of the NMLRA" it appears scopes have been on Slug guns since the NMLRA started (1933). An early photo looks to be a Unertl (which started in 1934). So, my question: when did scopes/tubes appear on ML?

There were patents for telescopic sights in the late 1830's.
By the end of the war between the States, both sides snipers had used telescopic sights on their guns.

 

[dledinger]

All too many ranges are unsafe beyond the berm being fired at.

There is a practical science behind range design, as most military folks know.

 

[RedFeather]

Speaking of keeping ranges safe, our club opened around 1953. The area was strictly country. Fast forward, we have houses and a subdivision within pistol range. Our once bucolic, rustic 100 yard range had to be improved. We sunk telephone poles across and about twenty yards out, affixing plywood panels front and back, then filling with gravel to make a raised buffer. The original berm was raised and flanking berms added. Screed fill dirt was applied to the berm face. The roof over the benches was extended so that it overlapped with the panels (line of sight) which, in turn, overlap with the berm. This gives some added protection against shots going over the range. (That overhang also makes it pretty dang loud.) All of this is to protect against accidents which, in all likelihood, would spell the end as we are grandfathered in by the county. What it cannot defend against is stupidity. We've had holes shot into the panels, guys shooting at the gravel covered range floor, sighting in by guess and by God, etc. As hard as it is to find an ourdoor range in these parts, much less one free to members, makes it hard to believe. That's why the number one first line of defense is good, strict range safety. Doesn't matter what you are shooting if you don't have that.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Some of the European designed ranges might be of interest....

Not promoting them just saying.

 

[Ray-Vigo]

Yes - some ranges have to be built with the lowest common denominator of shooter in mind. I shoot at a 100 yard range in Centreville and it has been built up to keep bullets from escaping in every direction. Yet, you still see holes in the roof, holes in the overhead baffles, bullet skid marks on the ground, etc. The muzzleloaders at the range are actually very well behaved in my experience. I visit the range both during muzzleloader and modern/open range time, and the most irregular shooting is usually someone shooting erratically with a modern pistol at targets beyond the range of their abilities.

 

[azmntman]

So far the govmnt has left us alone out here. We can shoot at will in the forest. I have no trouble finding a safe backstop. More of us will be shooting in the forest too as they are slowly closing all the "pits" we all used to shoot at. We have a "range" I hear but I prefer to shoot and drink alone (not together mind you :slap: ). I cant see shooting at a range with some wanna be cop type telling me when to put my gun down and all that (many I understand are cool,one power hungry idiot though would be it for me). My favorite "pit" from the 70-'s and early 80's is now a golf course for a well to do gated community. If they only knew they were playing on LEAD :rotf:

 

[smo]

So far the govmnt has left us alone out here. We can shoot at will in the forest. I have no trouble finding a safe backstop. More of us will be shooting in the forest too as they are slowly closing all the "pits" we all used to shoot at. We have a "range" I hear but I prefer to shoot and drink alone (not together mind you :slap: ). I cant see shooting at a range with some wanna be cop type telling me when to put my gun down and all that (many I understand are cool,one power hungry idiot though would be it for me). My favorite "pit" from the 70-'s and early 80's is now a golf course for a well to do gated community. If they only knew they were playing on LEAD :rotf:

Funny that you mention that.

The local skeet & trap range where I grew up now is a $ High Dollar Subdivision $.

There’s tons of lead out there!

 

[Ray-Vigo]

Oh housing here has gone nuts as well. They're building a subdivision on a landfill near me. Houses start at $600,000 and go up from there.

 

[52Bore]

Glad to learn in this discussion that unmentionables can have all the shooting characteristics as all other ML weapons - Black Powder, Lead Conicals, #11 caps, ignition and scopes. I know if seen some with nice walnut stocks.
Guess the plastic is the deal breaker for some - but I certainly understand as wood (especially nice wood) is becoming a precious commodity.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Glad to learn in this discussion that unmentionables can have all the shooting characteristics as all other ML weapons - Black Powder, Lead Conicals,

No!...That's not accurate. They are similar, but remain two distinctly different platforms.

Early cartridge rifles have more in common with traditional muzzleloaders than modern unmentionables do....
Understanding this distinction could prevent a nasty accident.