Unpatched round ball
- Thread starter Gene L
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I'm not so sure about that. Rifle Muskets were used on both sides.
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flehto said:
While some percussion and even some old flintlock smoothbore Muskets were used early and even into the middle of the UnCivil War in "the West" (that meant what we would call the Midwest and Southern Midwest today); when they referred to "Muskets," they most often meant the 3 Band Rifle Muskets made by Springfield, Harpers Ferry and other contractors or imported ones like the Enfields.
The terminology of the Minie' Ball shooting rifled Military Arms was Rifle Musket for 3 band muskets, Rifle for 2 Band and the shorter barreled models were referred to as Musketoons or Carbines.
When trees were embedded with the Rammers from Rifle Muskets, this was usually due to one of three things. 1. New and poorly trained Units that did not have returning the Rammer drilled into them with enough practice of the Manual of Arms. They normally only made that mistake once, if the unit survived the battle. 2. Poorly trained individuals in the heat of combat mistakenly fired their rammers. 3. The last and by far the least likely reason was when a unit ran out of cartridges and were on their last cartridge when an overwhelming enemy charge/assault was received by the troops. However, it would be very difficult to document this as the normal practice when they ran out of cartridges was to resort to the bayonet.
In the Southron Trenches at Marye's Heights after the second day of the Battle of Fredericksburg, VA; they found Confederate Rifle Muskets that had multiple loads in them. One Rifle Musket had so many cartridges in it that it came close to being loaded almost to the muzzle, though I can't remember exactly how many cartridges were in it. It was said to have been loaded with cartridges in the "teens" though.
However, that was a very unusual occasion where Confederate Forces were in the sunken road or other trenches and up to three, four or five soldiers deep. The soldiers in the rear loaded muskets and passed them up to the Soldiers in the front of the trenches to fire. The Rifle Musket loaded almost to the muzzle must have had a clogged cone/nipple and thus did not fire, but got reloaded time and time again as it was handed back after volley firing. Firing was so fast and so furious that day the soldiers in front probably did not realize that musket never went off in the roar of so many hundreds of muskets going off in each firing.
Gus
Billnpatti
Cannon
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The patch serves three basic functions. First, it provides a seal around the ball to prevent the hot gasses from escaping around the ball. Secondly, it keeps the ball from touching the inside of the bore and leaving lead deposits along with the fouling. And thirdly, it provides a means of applying lubrication to the bore which eases the seating of the ball.
If one eliminates the patch, he looses these functions. Loss of a good seal results in widely varying breach pressures which yields widely varying muzzle velocities. These widely varying MVs result in very poor accuracy. A bare ball in a rifle will leave lead deposits in the rifling which translates into poor accuracy and difficulty in loading. Lack of lubrication yields more fouling build up in the bore which causes difficulty in loading. These same things can happen in a smoothbore but because of the lack of lands and grooves, the effect is much less.
Bottom line, no patch yields poor accuracy and a badly fouled barrel. But, in an emergency and at close range, it can be done.
If one eliminates the patch, he looses these functions. Loss of a good seal results in widely varying breach pressures which yields widely varying muzzle velocities. These widely varying MVs result in very poor accuracy. A bare ball in a rifle will leave lead deposits in the rifling which translates into poor accuracy and difficulty in loading. Lack of lubrication yields more fouling build up in the bore which causes difficulty in loading. These same things can happen in a smoothbore but because of the lack of lands and grooves, the effect is much less.
Bottom line, no patch yields poor accuracy and a badly fouled barrel. But, in an emergency and at close range, it can be done.
Rifled muskets shot mainly a conical and most didn't shoot PRBS.
Even during the Rev. War mostly smoothbore muskets were used....rifles shooting PRBs were not prevalent at all. Some "romanticism" is connected w/ tales of the prowess of riflemen w/ LRs shooting Redcoats at unbelievable distances.
One addt'l purpose of a patch is to impart spin to the RB from the rifling......Fred
Even during the Rev. War mostly smoothbore muskets were used....rifles shooting PRBs were not prevalent at all. Some "romanticism" is connected w/ tales of the prowess of riflemen w/ LRs shooting Redcoats at unbelievable distances.
One addt'l purpose of a patch is to impart spin to the RB from the rifling......Fred
No idea compared to a smoothie, BUT I did win a "stake cutting match" with my old .50 cal Blue Ridge Hunter when I ran out of patches.
It was 25 yards, and a 2x4 was planted broadside to the firing line for each team that was shooting, and myself and my partner shot against five other teamed pairs of riflemen...first team to cut their 2x4 in half won. I ran out of patching material as I had forgot to replenish my patching material from a previous contest. So when I ran out we kept shooting. Accuracy wasn't bad (at 25 yards) but my rate of fire increased too..., and that helped.
LD
Charlton Heston did the ramrod through the Indian in The Mountain Men. Burt Lancaster shot Walter Mathow with a ramrod in one of his movies set on the trans Mississippi.
As a rule I load with the ramrod in the gun so I have yet to launch one. If I went to fire it with rod in barrel I would "feel" something not right and see the problem. If being attacked by any number of possible villans from injuns to zombies all bets are off tho :haha:
Had a guy shoot off his wooden ramrod and a match in Houston back in the late 60's. He managed a 6 on the first bounce. The rules committee kibitzed a bit and allowed the score! He didn't win anything but I still smile thinking of it! :shocked2: :rotf: :haha:
54ball
62 Cal.
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flehto said:
I'll agree that rifled muskets used mainly Minnies but .57 or so sized round ball is a common relic find in GA. Al and MS.
A greased paper patched RB should do well out of a Rifled musket. Maybe these round balls were CSA...maybe that's all some units had.
A couple of Civil War historians have mentioned bored union troops at the siege of Petersburg deliberately firing ramrods at Rebel works. They apparently liked the swooshing noise and once in a while hit somebody, according to Catton and others. Graybeard
I can recall a comical trail walk I and my friend used to shoot and do real well at.The point we did the best at was the under attach part. You got 1 point for each hole in your ***** target. Well we found out that three balls would go out as good as 1 , when shooting at 10 to 15 yds. That's how we would always win. Only catch was, always make sure when you rammed the balls down, to keep the muzzle up til you shot,no problem at all. Three at a crack . NO, I WOULD NOT RECCOMEND THIS.Neither would I say to shoot your ramrod out.About a brass two pounder ,----hurts.
graybeard said:
How would they fire a subsequent shot if they shot their ramrods?
Shoot your neighbors.
"Can I borrow your rammer a second, Johnny?" POOM!
"Can I borrow your rammer a second, Johnny?" POOM!
Gene L; you don't even have to be under direct fire to do this. Just give yourself some time . I know I'm right.Just like never a dry ball, ya I know all about this.God loves liars toooo. To be honest , I've been shooting a good 40 years, and if I haven't done it, I know I've seen it. I know there are those that been there and done that , three times over ,ya.Like I said about the Lord.
I think you meant, "Shoot your neighbor ' s. "
Not to kill the guys next to you....
:haha:
Sorta like the difference between,
Let's eat, Grandma!
and
Lets eat grandma!
Punctuation often counts.
:rotf:
I confess even with the following sentence about asking for the other guy's rammer, I was still seeing one shooting the guy standing nearby,
...then I "got it".
LD
