unreliable underhammer

[breech]

Im just all you guys out there always out there buying and selling trying to get the best gun collection possible.I am trying a little harder Because I am looking to move to helena[url] montana.in[/url] 6 mths and have really been trying different guns out and keeping some selling the rest.I am also a persom who advocates muzzle loading and get as many people intereted in it as I can.Well talk about everything going wrong.I met this fellow and we started being buddies and knowing I am extremly into muzzle loading he decided he wanted to get in and I sold him Two guns that I had ordered for myself.I had ordered a hopkins and allen underhammer remakes,not sure if deer creek makes them or heritage.Also the sideslapper 32 that deer creek offers,both were built for me by a gunbuilder who builds them profesionalysupposedly proffesionally.Also ordered a powder horn from the same guy.They were both small game rifles and he wanted them.I sold them at a little proffit and bought something else which I had run across by then.He got them straight out of the box from me.First this builder stuck a flimsy piece of brass on the front of the stock tip on guns and they were pealing off.Not a good start.After a week of complaining it come time to shoot the guns and I was told what good guns they were gonna be cause that was what I was toldThe mule aer fired well not a hitch but the underhammer came with a flash cup and on the first try,nothing.Cap didnt even snap.After removing the cup and of course using fresh caps still the gun didnt snap the cap.Looking the hammer is hiting the cap.On the fifth try it fired.And then fired pretty good for 5 or 6 shots it did it again and again.Sometimes the caps are even hit so hard the look like mushrooms.Does anybody got an explanaion for this.Even the powder horn I sold him brand new isnt working anymore.Hes now discusted and I cant blame him.What good is a gun that wont fire half thye time.Been shootin smokepoles and love them.Have goten alot of people their start into blackpowder and people buy my guns because I always have good guns.This underhammer I was always under the impression these were good rifles.What do you all think might solve this problem.

 

[Zonie]

highgain: A couple of guesses you might want to consider.

First, if the underhammer nipple is not tall enough (like the builder filed the end down shorter so the hammer would hit squarely) then the skirt of the cap may be seated against the body of the nipple. This would leave the bottom of the cup standing off of the actual nipple.

A cap placed on a nipple like this could end up looking like a pounded mushroom and not fire because the actual priming powder isn't being squeezed.
Place a cap on the nipple and make sure the cap isn't seated against the body of the nipple below the cone.

If this is the problem, the answer would be to get a new nipple or file the body down leaving more of the tapered cone standing proud.

Some underhammer guns have weak hammer falls. This is because they use the trigger guard as the spring.
If this is the problem, the only answer is to replace the trigger guard with one made from thicker material.

It is a remote possibility that the hammer is binding, but I think that would be noticed during cocking.

You could have a batch of defective caps too.

Don't give up. I am sure more answers are on their way, even as I write this. :curse:

 

[Dave Poss]

If the caps are getting hit so hard that they "mushroom" and they STILL won't go off...I would think you had faulty caps! I've seen the "charge" fall out of the cap housing on some of the cheaper caps...Especially Remington. Another thing could be the caps got wet or even damp and would not fire. As far as a powder horn "not working"....Got me! :what:either the powder ,again, is wet or damp or the hole in the horn is too small and clogs up. There are scads of people here that know much more than me about guns and caps. My son shoots a caplock and he had similar problems until he bought some good fresh caps. Stay tuned...some of the smart members here will probably give you a more factual answer than my guesses! :redthumb:

 

[breech]

Well longnife I considered the caps not being any good so tried both remington and nynamite noble caps wich both fire well on the sideslapper but not on the underhammer.Also pushed downn quite hard to be sure they were seated.I called the maker and he seems also dumbfounded.After checking each cap they were hit hard enough to put a ring on the compound in the caps.Just has me completely at a loss. :what:

 

[Liver eatin’ Johnson]

Is the nipple centered in the face of the hammer when it is resting on it? Could be it is striking a glancing blow to the cap... :hmm:

 

[noah]

I've been shooting underhammers for a long time now and never experienced bad ignition unless the nipple had become mushroomed and wouldn't let the cap seat.An earlier post mentioned filing the nipple down to square it with the hammer,good possibility for cap failure by shortening it.Weak spring,maybe?? Heating the hammer and bending it would have been better.One of my underhammers needs a small washer on the nipple threads to raise it up high enough to be struck by the hammer.I've had nothing but good luck and accuracy with all the H & A underhammers I own and have built.I have owned one sideslapper built by Navy Arms,built years ago.It worked flawlessly.But it was set up for musket caps not #11.By the way the one with the washer is a Numrich Arms underhammer and not an H & A.Every manufacturer goofs once in awile.Last time I checked on buying a finished rifle from H & A was years ago and to my knowledge now, they don't offer kits but sell assembled in the white.Although I buy parts and assemble them on my wood,I don't get the parts directly from H & A.I sure hope your buddy can find the solution.Contact[url] bluegrouseblackpowder.intranets.com[/url] Bruce will be able to sort the problem out.good luck Noah