UPSIDE DOWN FLINTLOCK?

[Zonie]

Knowing how you Flintlock shooters like to be different, and have been known to get into discussions about your favorite Lock, I thought you would like to see these pictures.
They came from a 1971 book titled Antique Arms Annual, 1st EDITION published by S.P.Stevens, Edited by R.L.Wilson and sponsored by THE TEXAS GUN COLLECTORS' ASSOCIATION.

This paperback 11 X 17 book has color pictures of more absolutely beautiful guns than you can shake a stick at.
Most of them are cartridge guns, but there are a number of plain and engraved Cap and Ball guns, both individually shown and matched sets in presentation cases.

Now that I have your attention, on page 175 and 176 is a story about Joseph Egg's Inverted Flintlock, written by Claude Blair.

Joseph patented this design in 1813 in London.
It seems there were not very many guns made with this patent, and the author says he believes there are only 3 known in the world today. A pair in Hermitage Museum, Leningrad and a belt pistol in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York.

The top picture shows the gun upside down while the lower picture shows it in the normal position.

Now, you see? There is something Robin doesn't have. ::

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Very neat indeed.

 

[scott k]

Are ya sure that Musketman didn't get to those pictures. it looks like one of his creations. :crackup:

Does it say why it's made like that? Maybe it's a pocket gun so it doesn't hang up on a quick draw.
Lehigh...

 

[ffffg]

if i remember right, this was on another forum recently.. this type gun was used by rugged military group for bad weather conditions.. if you notice water cannot easily flow over the barrel and into the pan as most flintlocks will do.. dave..

 

[trent/OH]

Even more unusual, it appears to be a lefthanded pistol. When brought to full cock, the cock would be covering most of the trigger guard from the right side. :imo:

 

[soggy]

:: Looks like somthing that got put together back at deer camp after a couple of jars of shine were tested. :crackup: :crackup: :imo:

 

[Boonetract]

The Edsel of firelocks.

:crackup:

 

G'day,

This type of flintlock is used in Australia to stop the powder from falling out.

Cheers from down under
Aussie Bob :haha:

 

[Wart]

I'm having trouble seeing how the spark is going to drop into the pan :hmm:

 

[Twisted_1in66]

G'day,

This type of flintlock is used in Australia to stop the powder from falling out.

Cheers from down under
Aussie Bob :haha:

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup::crackup:

ROFLMAO! That was good Aussie Bob.

 

[musketman]

I'm having trouble seeing how the spark is going to drop into the pan :hmm:

The force of the flint striking the frizzen will throw the sparks downward relative to the hammer's throw (arc), the sparks will go the same direction (down from the frizzen and into the pan) despite which position the gun is held in...

If the gun is inverted, the hammer's throw is still the same, only our perception is altered, the flint still hits the frizzen and showers the powder with sparks...

A simple test would be to take a lock off a flinter, cock it and hold it upside down, trip the sear and watch the sparks still shower the pan as normal...

As for the priming powder, it will explode in all directions, so there is no problem there if the gun is inverted...

 

[CrackStock]

Musket Man,

Actually, the fire burns upward which can be an advantage. The limiting factor is that the powder is resting on the portion of the frizzen rather than down in the pan.

YMHS,
CrackStock

 

[musketman]

The limiting factor is that the powder is resting on the portion of the frizzen rather than down in the pan.

YMHS,
CrackStock

I have done this with powder in the pan as well, the frizzen is kicked out of the way and sparks ignite the prime before the effects of gravity have a chance to pull it down...

Now, with a weak main spring, this could pose a problem...

 

[montanadan]

Musketman-what about your trigger finger?(does it get burnt?)Somebody had to ask the dumb question of the day..Respectfully Montanadan

 

[musketman]

Musketman-what about your trigger finger?(does it get burnt?)Somebody had to ask the dumb question of the day..Respectfully Montanadan

I would imaging this was a defense type gun, and in that scenario, a burnt finger grossly outweighs death...

However, it would aid those who don't like hairy knuckles, less shaving...

 

[montanadan]

Musketman-Thanks again,by the way,you have to be the fastest picture poster on the planet! Respectfully Montanadan

 

[Zonie]

The author of the article (Claude Blair), after talking to people like Dr.Leonid Tarassuk, keeper of the Western Arms and Armour in the Hermitage Musieum, listed these as possible reasons for the design.
Quoting from the article:

"1. The fact that the initial flash from the pan was directed downward would give better vision at the moment of firing.
2. The fact that the cock and steel did not project above the barrel would give better vision when aiming.
3. The inverted pan gave better protection against damp.
4 The fact that when the pan-cover opens the priming falls out to meet the sparks struck by the flint gives slightly quicker ignition. I am indebted for this information to Mr. Keith Neal, who has experimented with inverted flintlock of other kinds.
5. The lock was generally more compact that the conventional one, the cock and steel, in particular, being less vulnerable to damage or disturbance as the result of catching or becomeing entangled with some outside object."

The author does mention that the rarity of this style of gun indicates to him that the design was not popular with buyers. (Bob DeWitt may have it right. Edsel, anyone?)

As for the trigger finger, note that the pans fence does extend downward to keep the flash away from the shooters hand.

As for it being a self defense gun, IMO, almost all pistols are designed for that role.
With these particular guns though, if you missed on your shot, you could use the butt of the weapon as a club to hit the antagonist in the jaw. He would then have found the true meaning of having "Egg on Your Face"! :: ::

 

[montanadan]

Zonie-thank you,very nice post..Respectfully Montanadan

 

[Colonial Boy]

As Aussie Bob said we use 'em down here to keep the powder from fallin' out. The real test of a normal flint gun here though is to use it right way up. If it's any good the charge will ignite but if it's a slow lock the priming will flash about two to three inches above the gun. This has been known to cause people using double guns to be a bit off with the second shot.

Eoin.