USA Made Production Trade Gun . . .if only . . .

[shotgunner]

A soothbore .20 for around $400.00

Why doesn't an American Manufacturer offer such an animal.

I have a big problem sending cash to Italy or India when I am an American hunter/shooter.

Politically incorrect perhaps, but honest . . .

shotgunner :imo:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Could just be patriotic...used to be a virtue.

 

[shotgunner]

Just a working class hunter, 900.00 is more than I make in 2 weeks, seems nutty that I can buy a modern cartridge shotgun for 89.00 and a entry level BP shotgun costs 300.00 plus . . .just my opinion of course . . .


shotguner :results:

 

[jim gray]

I understand your dilemna. I have a T/C on order with the idea that in the future I can get a drop in .62 cal/ 20 guage smoothbore barrel for it.

It's still gonna cost well over $300, but it'll give me one gun for almost everything, and it is American made. :applause:

 

[musketman]

Why doesn't an American Manufacturer offer such an animal.

One reason could be that it's cheaper to make things over-seas, our dollar being stronger than most others...

Yes, if even one American gun manufacture was to corner the market on a good, low cost, muzzleloading smoothbore, the rest would follow suit to keep from loosing that $$$$...

Right now, smoothbores are still a custom item in America, so the price will reflect...

 

[tg]

Often one can find good deals on used American made guns, I have bought and sold used trade guns for 300-400 dollars, at times the fit and finish may not be top notch...but probably closer to the originals than many of the new 1000+ dollar guns.

 

[musketman]

Often one can find good deals on used American made guns, I have bought and sold used trade guns for 300-400 dollars, at times the fit and finish may not be top notch...but probably closer to the originals than many of the new 1000+ dollar guns.

That's true, there are always good deals out there...

However, some people do not like used guns, if they are going to spend hard earned money, they want new...

I can see both points, when I get a deal on a used gun, I ask myself, "Why is he selling it? Is there something wrong with it?"

I got burned on a few deals in my early days on muzzleloading buying...

 

[tg]

One must always use good judgement and know what to look for, I often sell guns at a fair price because I usually end up with more than I can shoot and would rather see them being used than collecting dust, or decide I want to make a different one and sell a couple to cover the cost of parts for a new one, many people sell smoothbores after figuring out that they do not really care for them, the best bet is to but from someone you know or who is known by someone close to you, a gun that has been put together heavy handedly can often be had cheap and be fixed up for little cost and make a good gun.

 

[BLAHMAN]

Just a working class hunter, 900.00 is more than I make in 2 weeks, seems nutty that I can buy a modern cartridge shotgun for 89.00 and a entry level BP shotgun costs 300.00 plus . . .just my opinion of course . . .


shotguner :results:

That's because those "entry level" shotguns cost less than $89.00 to make. The manufacturer is going to make profit, or else they go out of business. Same thing with BP shotguns. (Besides, I wouldn't feel very comfortable with one of those cheap $89.00 jobs up close to my face going off). Those cheap shotguns get scarfed up because there're cheap, and not many people understand BP stuff to begin with. Good old fashioned supply and demand.
I have the same problem you have....lack of funds. I'm self employed and the niche market I have enjoyed for so long is going the way of the big box stores...pretty soon I'll be past tense in the work force, unless I do something now.
That's not really important in the scope of your question. I also wanted a smoothbore, and $900.00 (and up) is out of the question...so I went and made my own. It took about two years to gather up various parts and I did it incrementaly. After horse trading for this and horse trading for that I figure I've got about $300.00 in total parts cost.
I am lucky in that I live not far from a black powder shop, and I go there religiously. I always look through odds and ends pieces for deals, quite often, I find them, sometimes I don't. Today I picked up a barrel for $78.00...that's pretty darn cheap. I also picked up an original barrel for $20.00 and I'll put that to use as well.
I guess what I'm saying is that there are a lot of bargains out there...gotta keep your eyes open, if ya know what I mean.

 

[Donny]

[Why doesn't an American Manufacturer offer such an animal}

Why don't you make one for $400 and sell it???
:winking: :winking:
that may answer your question... :hmm:

OBTW, I did make an English fowler, .20 42" bbl, $100, Jack Garner stock blank, ( maple )inlet for bbl and rod hole drilled, $60.00.. ( on Sale) J. Chambers lock $100.
Prior Mt. Bill's book, and Hansen's Tradegun Sketchbook (abt $5.00 ea.) show how to make buttplate, sideplate,trigger, trigger guard, etc. Also, how to buy old breechloading shotgun bbls. to use.



I like it as much or more as my TOW tulle, abt $900..

 

[patriot]

Gents:

Maybe some of you know the answer to this:

What would be the average monthly salary for a tradesman in 1770 be, or what would a dollar buy in 1770?

What would a musket, fowler, or longrifle cost in 1770 and what percentage of a man's salary would that represent?

Now, what is today's "minimum" wage and what does a dollar buy?

What does a musket, fowler, or longrifle cost today in 2005 and what percentage of a man's salary does this represent?

Do you think our guns today cost less as a percentage of dollars earned than they did back in 1770?

I haven't done any research on the subject so I don't know. Might be interesting to make a comparison. Maybe we don't have it so bad afterall.

I remember my parents bought me a Nikon camera in 1969 as a graduation gift. Cost them $300.00. My day only earned $12,000 a year back then. Today, you can buy a pretty good camera for the same $300.00 and if he were alive today, he would be earning $50,000 plus, but could buy a better camera for the same money.

I wonder what a decent quality muzzleloader cost in 1969? :hmm:

Patriot

 

US made being more expansive? The reason isn't because your dollar is stronger, it's because their wages are lower.
: Look to Japan, China or Korea as well - their wages are even less in most cases. Goods made there that have equal value cost as much as they do made here, but that's due to us/we/'westerners'/'capitalists' being gouged by the importers - our fellow countrymen.
: Didn't TC offer a shotgun at one time? maybe they still do. How much is it? If it's discontinued, it's because no one broke their door down to purchase it.

 

Most modern entry-level single-shot shotguns are made in Brazil or some other 3rd world country. My fgirls have two Remingtons that were made in Brazil. Brazilian wages are less, therefore they cost less to make and therefore they can be sold for less, even after shipping up here.

 

[horkeye]

A soothbore .20 for around $400.00. Why doesn't an American Manufacturer offer such an animal. I have a big problem sending cash to Italy or India when I am an American hunter/shooter. Politically incorrect perhaps, but honest . . . shotgunner :imo:

Also, IMHO I think it is reasonable to acknowledge that the Italian (mainly) manufacturers ie Euroarms, Pedersoli, Pietta, Uberti etc etc etc (whew!) would just about have this market all but sewn-up! I don't think it would be practical for a US manufacturer to start making firearms that are already being produced by the Italians; DP's catalog gets BIGGER every year, not smaller!

On the other hand I venture to say that it would be highly unlikely for the Italians to start producing GM, Getz, Rice, Siler etc etc quality firearms.

I also have a BIG problem buying things made OS; 2 weeks ago we had burrittos (or similar), we purchased the NORMAL brand we always buy, then when we got home to my horror, I discovered that the actual flat bread part was made in ASIA!!!!! :curse:

Friggin' BREAD imported into AUS!!!! :curse: Now that sent my blood pressure through the roof; needless to say I didn't eat it!!!

There is only ONE commercial custom BP firearm maker in Aus; unfortunately he is in his 70's and is currently making his LAST firearm before he retires. There are another 2; both assemble KITS (ie TOTW etc) but one will not do any carving.
Sorry for the longggg post.
Jim. :imo: :redthumb:
PS Political correctness? Forced on the MAJORITY by minority splinter groups? :imo:

 

[Rebel]

PS Political correctness? Forced on the MAJORITY by minority splinter groups?

Well, maybe it is time for the SILENT majority to tell the VOCAL minority to shut the h**l up. Not just in your country, but ours as well.

 

[rifleshooter2]

One of the projects I'm working on is something like that. I have some parts left over from a trade gun I made back in the 80's. I intend to take the lock and get a 20 gauge barrel, use an nice straight grain piece of walnut and the brass from a brown bess. This would have been a gun that some gunsmith put together from parts he had laying around the shop. Knowing how things were reused I'm sure this was done from time to time.
Andy

 

[patriot]

Gents:

A tough topic to discuss without getting emotional.

Back when this ML sport was in its infancy, no American manufacturers wanted to make reproduction arms. Perhaps they were not convinced that there was a large enough market to justify the start up costs for tooling and design and that was the reason for taking a "pass", I don't know. But I do know that the Forgetts and Kirklands went oversees to see who would fill the gap. The Italians agreed to build the reproductions and the rest is history. I think it is safe to say that the DP and Uberti repros are pretty nice pieces. And we do owe them ( Navy Arms, Dixie Gun Works, and DP and Uberti) a debt of gratitude for taking the chance and creating the sport we all enjoy. I do own several Uberti and Pedersoli arms, purchased when prices were lower. Quality stuff!

Isn't it true that the Ithaca Gun Company did in fact tool and produce what was called an Ithaca Hawken, made in the USA? Eventually, they sold their tooling to some other company (maybe DP). Not profitable?

Being a small businessman myself, the costs to manufacture goods are astronomical. Our economic system is driven by supply and demand, based on profits. I am sure that if some of our current US ML gunmakers like Caywood, TVM, and others could justify mass production costs and mass produce for a profit, they might. But with the costs of land, capital, and American labor, I don't know if they could produce muzzleloaders of high quality and low prices.

One thing is for sure, thanks to all of those who still set up their cottage industries and produce custom muzzleloaders. The importers of Italian Muzzleloaders are going to feel the pinch as long as producers like Early Rustic Arms, TVM, CenterMark and others keep their trade alive and prices competitive. I've got an Early Rustic Arms Militia Musket on order. It's a long wait, but at $775.00 it will be cheaper than a DP Bess. Probably more authentic for my personna. And my dollars go to support an American worker. The Dream Is Still Alive!
I'm not a rich guy, and like the rest of you, there's not a lot of extra $$$$ laying around. But shell out a deposit and contibute to the slush fund, and pretty soon you will admire an American made muzzleloader that you would be proud to hand down to your kids.

Perhaps out there in the depths of this site sits an entrepreneur who is willing to take the chance and ....

Best to all

Patriot


:m2c:

 

[Keith]

Patriot be sure to give us a report on the ERA when you get it. I was drooling over that same musket BTW. I am not sure about the Ithaca Hawken, I thought it was a Uberti import.

Daryl, T/C used to make the New Englander. Not made anymore, barrels are available still. They used to have a drop in barrel for the System 1. Not made anymore.
Which model Remington is made in Brazil? I live an 90 minutes from Ilion, NY. I thought all their guns were still made in Ilion. Too bad if true they are the oldest US gun maker.

 

Thanks for the infor on the TC- I'd thought they'd made a pelter that no one wanted.
: The .410's are single-shot, break-open with the opening trigger ahead of the trigger guard.
: The finish is one of the painted on - plastics, that can be chipped( correct term) off the stock with a fingernail.
: I cut 1/2" off the end of the barrels and re-placed the sights, to give them 3/8's to 1/2 choke(modified). They now will kill ducks out to almost 35yds., DEAD. The patterns are beautifully even now, instead of having a tiny killing pattern with a large wounding pattern, typical with too-tighty choked .410's. Just thought you'd want to know. :crackup:

 

A soothbore .20 for around $400.00

Why doesn't an American Manufacturer offer such an animal.

I have a big problem sending cash to Italy or India when I am an American hunter/shooter.

Politically incorrect perhaps, but honest . . .

shotgunner :imo:

to get back on track for you, I would get a hold of some parts and build yourself one. I paid $650.00 for a .58 NWTG a few years ago that I didn't like, and have built three since, none of which cost me more than $550.00 in parts, all of which I love. It takes some time, patience and effort, but in the end, it's YOURS.

:imo: :results: