used lead, Flux and HELP

[atm1268]

I am new to the whole casting thing. I just finished my first riffle kit and am working on casting .530 round balls

I have read a bunch of posts and have a few questions.

I do plan on using recycled lead and have lots of great ideas where to find it. I see people talking about flux to remove impurities, can anyone name a product and a source for flux?

I see some folks have large blocks/ingots of lead, Are these purchased direct from manufactures?

When folks talk about pure lead, how pure is pure, 98%, 99%?

Soft lead is descriptive, but how does this fit into purity %?

Has anyone purchased lead from a source on E-bay? It looks good but the prices seem high.

Any general knowledge, links, and named product or sources you are using would be a big help.

Thanks

 

[wtilenw]

Here's what I use for flux. I like it because it doesn't smoke as much as the beeswax that I tried before.
Idaho PRB
Click Here for link

 

[paulvallandigham]

Lead is tested by its Brinnel Hardness. You can find Lead Hardness Testers by using your search engine.

Pure lead is about 5-7 BHn. At that hardness, its soft enough to score with your own thumb nail. The Thumb nail test is not a good test, however, as you can also score harder lead alloys with your thumb.Most of the Lead Hardness testers involve pressing a steel ball into the lead for a given period of time, and then observing the size of the "dent" in the lead through a magnifying glass that is calibrated. Then you take the measurement, and refer to a printed scale provided. A reloading press is used for most of the testers.

None of this is convenient when looking for scrap at scrap yards. For that, the thumbnail test has to do. Ingot lead is often the most costly, and you have to work with a reliable supplier who is used to providing PURE lead for MLer casters. Otherwise, they will sell you anything, and tell you what you want to hear to make the sale. If you are going to cast much, its worth the cost to have your own lead hardness tester.

Beeswax is traditionally used to flux casting lead. You can find it locally from Beekeepers, and find them through your local Agricultural Extension service. A piece the size of a pea is all that is needed. You don't want to breathe in lead or wax fumes. I flux whenever I add more lead to the "pot" as I am casting, as it take some small time to melt down the added lead, and the added lead always brings with it some impurities- even dust can contain silica grit, and oxides of several different metals commonly found around the home and shop.

Do cast in a well ventilated area- or outside, and stay upwind. :thumbsup:

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have been casting for a while and have made a lot of mistakes maybe you can learn from mine.

I am new to the whole casting thing. I just finished my first riffle kit and am working on casting .530 round balls

I have read a bunch of posts and have a few questions.

I do plan on using recycled lead and have lots of great ideas where to find it. I see people talking about flux to remove impurities, can anyone name a product and a source for flux?

A lot of stuff can be used to flux. Motor oil, bees wax, sawdust. I use wax, and sawdust for the main smelting. after I get my ingots as clean as I can, I only stir with a dry stick when I am pouring bullets. Every so often I stir the pot well and scrape the bottom and sides with the stick, then I skim off the crud.

I see some folks have large blocks/ingots of lead, Are these purchased direct from manufactures?

large blocks or ingots are hard to work with and I don't like them. They come from a lot of sorces too many to name.

When folks talk about pure lead, how pure is pure, 98%, 99%?

Soft lead is descriptive, but how does this fit into purity %?

Pure lead has a hardness of about 5 BHN I think it is about 99% or better. You can make bullets and balls out of about any lead. Pure is not required, but. Hard lead like Wheel Weights, lead shot, dental lead are different levels of hard. When the lead gets harder, the bullets and balls go down HARDER! Yes you can change your patches for PRB's and make the hard lead work. Hard lead conicals have to be sized most of the time to get them down the barrel.
If you want the most out of your bullets or balls you need lead that is the same BHN or hardness. The harder the lead the lighter it is. The softer the lead the heavier it is. So if you are sighted in for heavy soft lead and you shoot light hard lead the bullets will hit a different place. Also I have seen that if I use hard lead I have to clean between each shot or my groups are bad.

Has anyone purchased lead from a source on E-bay? It looks good but the prices seem high.?

I got some lead from ebay, and it was less expensive than pure virgin lead, or so I thought. When I got the lead I made some bullets and they were SUPER HARD! They were so hard I had to pound my conicals down the barrel. I got some more lead from other places and again it was hard. I ended up getting a hardness tester. I got a "Cabbin tree lead hardness tester". The lead I got from ebay was 22 BHN. I contacted the seller of the "pure" lead. He got the lead from smelted down car batterys, and that is another discussion all together. The scrounged lead, and the ebay lead was all stuff I will probably never use. So in my opinion it was VERY EXPENSIVE! I started to buy only pure virgin lead. I got mine from a company called "Rotometal". They have pure lead, and alloyed lead. it costs about 2 dollars a pound but it is comming down. The thing I like about the virgin lead is, it is the same every time. My conicals are now as perfect as I can get them. I weigh each bullet and every bullet I keep is + or - .3 grains. I can get as picky as I want. In fact I enjoy making bullets as much as I do shooting. Making the perfect bullets is relaxing for me.
This is what the cabbin tree tester looks like.

Any general knowledge, links, and named product or sources you are using would be a big help.

Thanks

Good luck, Ron

 

[mazo kid]

You can use several things for a flux, such as commercial products. The best ones are always free, such as beeswax (from candle stubs), candle wax or sawdust. As for suppliers of soft lead, look at roofing companies, plumbers, etc. for scrap. If you can identify it as soft lead, then scrap/recycling places are good. You have to watch the ebay stuff, a lot is wheel weight ingots. A few will say pure lead or soft lead; you need to ask the seller what it is coming from. I shoot BPCR and other guns so will pick up any "lead" I find at a good price. The soft lead goes into the bin for muzzle loaders, the wheel weights?harder lead for the more modern (relatively speaking) guns.

 

[jdstrang]

ATM:

Lots of good advice here, as usual. :thumbsup:

As far as flux goes, check the Log Cabin Shop, http://www.logcabinonline.com/ and use the search engine at the bottom of the screen for "flux". They sell Leadex for $4.50 a jar. It will last you a long time. But don't look around the site too long, or you will send them all your money! :haha:

Idaho Ron:

That Cabin Tree tester you showed is a crackerjack setup. I bought one and turned it over to our N-SSA skirmish team commander, who is also a master machinist. We use it to test everybody's lead.

But there's a really cheap method of field-testing lead: Take a number 2 pencil and whittle enough wood off the graphite core to expose it, but don't sharpen it. Then push the exposed graphite cylinder against the lead at about a 45-degree angle. It will cut a furrow in really soft lead. Harder lead will wear down the graphite. :hmm:

Concerning used lead: Cultivate a friendship with a roofing company employee. We got our roof redone last fall, and I struck up a good relationship with the regional foreman. Told him I'd love to take any lead flashings he comes across off his hands. Now, every couple weeks or so, I come home to find three or four 4-pound flashings piled on my back steps. They're pretty cruddy, with tar, etc., still hanging on them, but a little garage work with my hotplate and smelting pan turns 'em into butter-soft one-pound ingots. So far this week those ingots have been converted into 500-some-odd minies, roundballs and Sharps Christmas-tree boolets, and I'm not yet halfway through the flash stash. Pays to be friendly! :grin:

 

[Idaho Ron]

I had not heard of that way. I also drop ingots on concreat. If it rings it is hard and thud is soft. Again if I am laying money down I use the tester.
What is the club you are using the tester for and why? Thanks Ron

 

[Hubertus]

Idaho Ron - where can I find a "Cabbin tree lead hardness tester"?... I searched the internet and didn't come across it. BTW, your post was excellent as it answered some questions I had in a previous post! :thumbsup:

Hubertus

 

[paulvallandigham]

I found it here:
http://www.castingstuff.com/cabinetree_loading_products.htm

I hope that helps you. I don't get the spellings, either. :hmm: :youcrazy: :rotf: :hatsoff:

 

[jdstrang]

What is the club you are using the tester for and why? Thanks Ron

It's the North-South Skirmish Assn. team of which I am a member - Gen. W.T. Sherman's Bodyguard, the 7th Independent Company of Ohio Volunteer Sharpshooters. We have a badly outdated Web page at:
http://www.n-ssa.net/midwest/teams/shermans/ and the main N-SSA page is at the first part of that URL.

Since much of our shooting is of Minie/Burton balls, we need the softest lead possible to make them function as intended.

 

[Hubertus]

Thanks Paul! Much appreciated! :applause:

Hubertus

 

[atm1268]

wow, Thanks a bunch to all who posted. Lots of great advice!

I will invest in a tester and watch what I buy, as I thought Ebay is OK if you know what you are actually biding on.

I can not say thanks enough, you all have been a big help.

ATM

 

[FPDoc]

For fluxing, for the last 40 years or so, I have been using "a candle". Just dip an end into the melt until you get a puddle about the size of a quarter and then stir the mix until you're happy (I've used all the mentioned commercial and concocted materials with good effect). You can light the smoke with a match or lighter to burn off the excess.

 

[BigL]

"a candle" ??

 

[Dphar]

Order Marvelux from Track of The Wolf.

I also use beeswax which is better if recycling used lead. If there is a bee keeper in your area any old beewax will work so long as its dry and free of honey. But light the fumes or smoke gets very bad. I put a kitchen match in the pot when or even before I add the wax.
Stir well after the wax is melted (this is a must with either flux) but watch the flames.
I use my casting ladle to stir the wax and an old spoon for marvelux. You don't want this stuff on your ladle.
Wax actually is good for the ladle.

Dan

 

[maypo59]

Not to hijack, but I also have a question on this, and am sure the OP won't mind, as we just talked on the phone... :grin:

SO.. If "he" gets wheel weights, they are "hard lead" does/can fluxing remove the alloys that make it hard? can WW's be smelted back to pure lead for casting round balls? I see plenty that says for shooting from modern guns, (not MZLDR's) WW's are ok as is, but pure lead is what we need for RB's. So, can you create pure lead from WW's??? and if so, how?

Thanks.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The short answer is " NO!". You can't get the alloys out of Wheelweights without very expensive industrial grade equipment, using Electricity to drawn the other metals from the lead.

You can use wheelweights to make RB, but expect the balls to be:

1. Lighter in weight- put them on a scale and sort them by weight.

2. larger in diameter-- measure them with a caliper or micrometer, so you can know how much thinner your patching material has to be to achieve the same patch/ball fit.

3. HARDER- so that if you have been using tight fitting balls, you may find using WWs to be next to impossible to load in your muzzle without a mallet to start them. You can reduce the size of the ball you shoot by changing molds, but the harder ball does not upset very much on firing, so sealing the patch into the grooves becomes another problem to solve.

The easiest "solution" I have found is to simply use an OP Wad between the powder and PRB to seal the gases. It doesn't matter that the hard ball doesn't expand, then, as long as the patch/ball combination is tight enough for the patch to transfer the spin of the rifling to the ball.

Accuracy with wheel weights can be outstanding, at least according to a report from the Bevel Brothers in Muzzle Blasts this past year. Use the lead.

 

[boondocker]

I use old and broken crayons paper and all, I render in a well ventilated area and cast in my garage with good ventilation. We take the grandkids out to eat and this keeps up my supply of flux with the freebee crayons.But like the other posters said there is alot of flux to be had. I had a can of marvelux that i got from some used gear. He must had not had the lid tight ( paint can style) and whew damp marvelux has an adverse effect on a hot melt.We all know what happens there, I"ll stick to my dry crayons.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you spread the marvelux out on a cookie sheet, and then break up the lumps with a hammer, it should dry out in the sun and work just fine. No, I would not want to use any flux that is damp in molten lead! The product does work. I am just not convinced that it works better than beeswax to justify the cost.