using mallets or hammers

[MosinRob]

I see guys at the range using hammers or mallets to push their prb or conical down. I was always told to try to make a nice smooth push down the barrel. Does hitting it down defect the ball or bullet at all?

 

[Idaho Ron]

Yes. If you deform the nose they are not going to fly right. Stay clear of the guys pounding their loads down. Ron

 

[Rifleman1776]

I see guys at the range using hammers or mallets to push their prb or conical down. I was always told to try to make a nice smooth push down the barrel. Does hitting it down defect the ball or bullet at all?

For serious target shooting, a tight fit is necessary. Using a concave short starter and seating with a mallet is SOP. With the sprue facing up and whacking with the short starter what you want to achieve is consistency.
Face it, with a tight fit and whacking we may be loading a round ball but we sure aren't shooting one out the muzzle.

 

[BrownBear]

I see guys at the range using hammers or mallets to push their prb or conical down. I was always told to try to make a nice smooth push down the barrel. Does hitting it down defect the ball or bullet at all?

From the accuracy they're able to get, it obviously works. But it's a range thing. I have never shot with anyone who does it in the field.

Essentially two separate conversations. When I'm on the range I work only with things from my shooting bag and are easy to use because I'm a field shooter and hunter. If I was a match shooter, of course I'd be pounding like everyone else.

You'll find a lot of things the match shooters sell or push as "must haves" which don't necessarily translate well into field shooting and hunts. But you are less likely to win matches if you don't use them on the range.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

To nobody in particular... Has anyone given any thought about how accurate a wadcutter, or a semi-jacket flat nosed bullet is? I think, the little deformity caused to the round ball when using a short starter or mallet at loading, has a negligible effect on the accuracy of the round. If someone was to use a screwdriver or ice pick to short start a ball, then there definitely would be some problem with accuracy. :hmm:

As has been said, being consistent with the short starter or mallet during loading is a key element.

 

[crockett]

I read that mallets were issued to troops back in Colonial Times for some type firearms. Some conicals are very difficult to seat and are impossible to seat even with a mallet if the bore is fouled and hasn't been swabbed.
1 1/2" groups at 100 yards? (Okay- I had a scope) seem to indicate that accuracy isn't injured from a mallet however I used a ramrod tip that matched the bullet.
P.S. it is my understanding that most stocks that break in the wrist area are a result of forceful loading- one reason I now use a PRB. The PRB also eliminates any lead fouling and is certainly more do-able in the field while hunting.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Many top shooters at Friendship seat with a mallet. They also use a a seating tool that is concaved to match the ball. (I know many who use a mallet but know of no mallet user who loads without a concave seating tool.) No deforming takes place. (If you use a ball with a sprue the sprue may be flattened to match the the ball.)

The patch/ ball combination is very tight. I personally know a shooter who used a .502" ball with a .020" patch in a .50" . Some load tighter than this.

Obviously this is target loading from a bench. Loading from a bag is a completely different ball game. I don't know anyone who loads from a bag using a mallet. Depends on the game you play.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I use a mallet as a ball starter. Anybody that has ever been to Delmarva knows a crab mallet can double as a ball starter. The handles are generally just under 50 cal and the head of the mallet is soft on the palm when pushing the ball in. Brand new Crab mallets are 50 cents each at the local crab shack. And they are sturdier than those offered by TC and Traditions.

For those who don't eat crabs here is a picture:
http://www.chesapeaketraditions.com/wood-crab-mallets.html

 

[Stumpkiller]

Using a mallet to load appeals to me as much as having a car with a drivers side door that does not open. Too much effort.

But for target shooters (or race car drivers) it seems to work out.

As Pletch said: it depends on the shooting you're doing. I prefer to even avoid short starters and range rods. No worries. ;-)

 

[Rifleman1776]

Has anyone given any thought about how accurate a wadcutter, or a semi-jacket flat nosed bullet is?

One of the best, all time, champions at Friendship used to be Webb Terry. He could shoot anything and win but concentrated on bench rest. Webb was (is "was" correct? Is he still with us? Anybody know?) a master machinist and incredibly innovative. He was constantly experimenting. I saw a loading device he made for the false muzzle of a bench rifle that would force (swage?) a .50 cal. round ball into a .38 cal. bore. And it was still patched. He never used it in competition. I have no doubt he did experiments with shapes as you ask about. Really, over the years, a lot has been tried. I won't say everything because sure as shootin' somebody will come along with another idea.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Generally speaking a tight load shoots tight groups. I can load my .45 caliber Rice barrel with a .451" ball and patch of .018" pillow ticking or .014" linen using a short starter without a mallet, just pounding with the heal of my hand, but an equally tight load in .50 caliber is too much for the bare hand. My short starter has a stub to seat the ball just below flush for cutting the patch and a 5" leg to run the ball on down to where the ramrod takes over. Once started down 5" I can run the ball on down with a hand over hand work of the rod with no further pounding required.

 

[Naphtali]

I have 30:1 775-grain bullets from a custom mold. Bullets are used in my Pedersoli Kodiak Safari .72-caliber double rifle. Bullets were designed to not be loadable except by mallet. I did this to eliminate any possibility of the heavy loads for which I regulated the barrels causing a bullet in the unfired barrel from moving [toward the muzzle] and becoming dangerous to shoot.

I have not loaded any other bullet or RB, so I have no basis for strict comparison on the effect of loading with mallet from smoothly loading via loading rod only.

Having typed the previous, the Safari shoots right-left (the only sequence I fire) two-shot groups that touch at 50 yards. At 85 yards the group opens to three inches, give or take. I have not fired at longer distances, for my effective shooting distance in the heavily forested area where I hunt is less than 85 yards.

What I can state is that the chubby conical ball-with-flat-nose does not appear to be significantly affected by loading with mallet (that is, mallet with short starter, followed by mallet with stainless steel loading rod). My rifle has been customized, including replacing Pedersoli's appallingly poor rear sight with a Brockman's wing-protected aperture sight. If the rifle is capable of improved accuracy or consistency using different bullets and different loading procedure, I am not capable of taking advantage of such improvement.

Hope this helps.

 

[nkbj]

Why hasn't NASA invented a patch material that expands after loading?

 

[curator]

For serious target work I have always used a mallet to seat tight ball/patch combinations which gave the best accuracy. Heavy mallets are best for this. Light ones actually deform the bullet more. I have found that a large, heavy, rubber mallet will seat the ball perfectly with one tap. Short starter surfaces must conform to the shape of your bullet and be close to bore size. When I was younger I did pound them in with the heel of my hand, now it hurts too much.

 

[Rifleman1776]

775-grain bullets from a custom mold. Bullets are used in my Pedersoli Kodiak Safari .72-caliber double rifle.

My shoulder hurt and turned purple just reading that. :shocked2: :wink:

 

[Billnpatti]

Probably because the astronauts prefer something other than muzzleloaders for fighting space creatures. :rotf:

 

[cynthialee]

775-grain bullets from a custom mold. Bullets are used in my Pedersoli Kodiak Safari .72-caliber double rifle.

My shoulder hurt and turned purple just reading that. :shocked2: :wink:

you and me both

I think I'd rather use it for a club than shoot that thing!

 

[Naphtali]

You are correct and incorrect simultaneously. Shooting any of the loads I used, from 150 grains FFg at the start through my regulated load, with the Safari's original stock configuration and steel butt plate, was a nightmare. First shot with bullet, 150 grains FFg, CCI #11 magnum cap I suffered a numbing bruise from clavicle to beneath my elbow. . . . To the gunsmith.

Adjusting stock to my body, installing Pachmayr English style pad, et al., accomplished several things, all good. Rifle is significantly more aesthetically pleasing. Rifle is significantly quicker to acquire my target. And recoil is manageable by me for up to 16 shots at the range.

Something surprising about the rifle is that it shoots my regulated load to the same point of impact with the same consistency with three shooters. I am 68 inches, left-handed, 140 pounds. Second shooter is 71 inches, right-handed, 220 pounds. Third shooter is 74 inches, left-handed, 185 pounds. This makes no sense, but there it is.

With much less shooting and experimenting, I obtained similar intershooter consistency (me and Shooter #2) with a .58-caliber Kodiak that preceded the Safari.

 

[CrackStock]

I load with a mallet at the range for competition and find that I get far better accuracy from doing this. For several years, I used a concave faced short starter, but read some things which indicated that the leading face of the projectile might not be all that important, so for a while, I used the flat of my patch knife tapped with my loading mallet to seat the ball into the bore and turned one of my brass starter rods so that the flat was against the sprue. This flattened the sprue a bit more, but I saw no difference between this and the concave short starter. I think that other variables are far more important for accurate shooting.

Give it a few shots. See what you learn.

CS

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I think there is a huge difference between malleting a conical and malleting a round ball. The round ball has very little of its surface that when combined with the patch (when all other factors remain equal), engages the rifling, no? So would malleting the round ball possibly deform it outward, due to compression, and thus increase the surface area of the bullet and patch that engages the rifling? :hmm:

I have seen the difference between how much of the ball is swaged when loading a .44 cap-n-ball revolver with a .451 vs. a .454 ball, and although not much, it is visible to the eye that the .454 ball has more surface that hits the rifling when fired...,

So the revolver is a bigger ball made smaller when pushed through the revolver barrel, but would not malleting the smaller round ball in a muzzleloading rifle, when coupled with a very tight patch, make it bigger? Just a tiny bit, but a few more thousandths of an inch of rifling contact might be what makes the difference?

Or is the thought that it's simply the really tight patch combination, and malleting is simply what is needed to seat the round, and if one had some sort of hydrolic press to push the ball down and seat it with identical pressure on the load each time, the result would be the same without smacking the crap out of the ball?

LD