Using Modern Barrels for a muzzleloading shotgun?

[John Northrup]

I've pondered a bit on doing the same. The first problem is finding affordable barrels that will still be long enough after cutting off the three inch chamber. Then comes the issue of machining breechplugs, double shotgun plugs are rather complex little parts. Then stocking an ML double shotgun is no simple matter. By the time you pay for all the parts you could probably pick up a nice used Pedersoli for less money and a whole lot less aggravation.

Can someone tell me why when converting a modern cartridge shotgun barrel to a Muzzleloader barrel do you have to cut off the 3 inch chamber?
I’m asking because I can take my 3 inch chamber 2 3/4 shells in it no problem..
Just wondering

 

[Zonie]

I would cut off most but not all of it.

If the barrel is a 12 guage, the chamber diameter is about .800. The minor diameter for a 7/8-14UNF thread is about .798 -.814 so, the chamber is at the tap drill size without modifying it.

If the barrel is a 20 guage, the chamber diameter is about .685. The minor diameter for a 3/4-16 UNF thread is about .682 - .696 so, the chamber is already at the tap drill size for that thread.

While using the existing chamber won't create the nice shoulder that is normally used for a breech plug to butt up against, there are other, non-traditional ways of sealing the breech plug threads against leakage.

 

[Col. Batguano]

The easiest way to do it is not exactly traditional muzzle loading but might be an experiment to see if you want to go through the effort.

Cut off the front of a couple of shells, and just use the primed hulls. Better still is to get some brass full length cases. Load the barrels from the muzzle with traditional muzzle loading loads. You will find that choked barrels present their own set of challenges. The shell hulls in the chamber will be a bit of a nuisance that wads might hang up on a little too, but you'll at least get something of a feel for it. Then, if you decide against it, you won't be out much, and nothing (except a couple of shells) will have been defaced in the process.

 

[Rudyard]

I made a pair of Smith 10 bore BL barrels up into a double flint gun. For a Gentleman named Herman Marker who used to run the Skeet range at F' ship . He had the barrels only . I cut shorter the chambers and contrived a glorified 'Chamber 'plug the huts into the false breach & its vents run though the walls rather than separate Nocks screwed in The Locks where ex Cawnpore but proportioned to the larger barrels yes made it wide though the scears where not so far apart as I let them in more . Brass mounted my own patterns. Don't recall a rod as he wanted a Pigeon gun (Clay).

Feature of it was the tubes had one Damascus the other was twist. Not normal I suspect Smiths got the' in the white' tubes mixed and not till they are browned would you discover that . At which point I guess they just blew it out as a novelty . last I saw it was in Greenville OH . His log house was up towards Willow Dell . Fine gentleman gone now . might find a pic .
Regards Rudyard

 

[jlatz]

For several years I have been using a Vic Beeson 12 ga. in line that has an adopted Remington 870 barrel. It has a modified choke and does well at trap out to 20 yards from the trap house. Using Goex fff, 2 & 3/4 drams and an ounce and one eighth of number seven shot is good on clays. The mod choke is not much trouble to load through. With the described load one can shoot mostly all day without cleaning. I have used this shotgun much on the Friendship trap range at the spring nationals.

 

[tom in nc]

I would cut off most but not all of it.

If the barrel is a 12 guage, the chamber diameter is about .800. The minor diameter for a 7/8-14UNF thread is about .798 -.814 so, the chamber is at the tap drill size without modifying it.

If the barrel is a 20 guage, the chamber diameter is about .685. The minor diameter for a 3/4-16 UNF thread is about .682 - .696 so, the chamber is already at the tap drill size for that thread.

While using the existing chamber won't create the nice shoulder that is normally used for a breech plug to butt up against, there are other, non-traditional ways of sealing the breech plug threads against leakage.

This is something I too have pondered. It sounds like, according to Zonie, that a 20ga barrel, using a 3/4-16 tap would work best. What then, would be a good, non-traditional way of sealing the breech plug threds against leakage?

 

[TNGhost]

You have to get William Brockway's book,"Recreating the Double Barrel Muzzleloading Shotgun". As far as I know available at virtually all the muzzleloader shops that sell books. Many details on how to build the gun and how to breach modern barrels.

^This fellow had the answer, 12 years ago, in post #7

 

[bgarrison54]

If you leave the lock plates parallel it makes too clunky of a gun.

If I replaced both firing pins on an L. C. Smith SxS 12 ga . external hammers with appropriate size black powder nipples, any chance this would work as a muzzle loader ?

 

[Trapper1993]

I've heard of a guy using a browning 50 cal aircraft machine gun barrel for a muzzleloader

 

[hawkeye2]

If I replaced both firing pins on an L. C. Smith SxS 12 ga . external hammers with appropriate size black powder nipples, any chance this would work as a muzzle loader ?

Without a cartridge to seal the breech you would get a lot of leakage.

 

[Rudyard]

If a deep brass cart case had a hole to allow sparks it would seal to some extent no worse than some external cappers where can it go ? similar plans where made . Rebounder as most such locks are shouldnt impede the function you would however have the chamber very loose for any hard wadding be Ok with soft like paper . with some sort of liner for the chamber . The old full brass 'Perfects' might suit . never tried it but wont burst I wouldnt think.
Rudyard

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Hello all,
I am a new guy from Indiana. I have been shooting muzzleloaders for about 20 yrs now since my Grandpa gave me a .45cal KY rifle at the age of 11. I have been searching for a dbl 12 or 20 to start hunting with and I have a 12 but it is pretty crusty. Barrels are in good shape and is the stock but the locks are pretty bad. Anyway, I am looking for a way to take a couple of modern dbl barrels and make them into muzzleloaders. Can anyone help me out. Anyone near Indianapolis that would like to show me? I would be a VERY WILLING student.
Paul

Well I might be your man. Ha ha from across the pond. I wanted a double barrel .500 ml for years , got a .36 but no good for big game. Then a pair of Westly Richards barrels .577/500 no2 , Metford rifling 1885 came up at auction , mine for £280 then I pondered and pondered. I recall I tapped the chambers 5/8” bsf , then made big plugs divided with a plate and all pinned together. ( finger ) The locks are William and Powell , all around 1885 as were the barrels. No percussion locks to be found, but I preferred 209 primers anyway Single trigger is fine, walnut in the style of Reilly my favourite builder It’s flat underneath for holding the barrels and the flat forward for comfy resting on your shoulder when tracking in the bush. Ok am pleased for renovating 1885 history and a bonus it’s now a muzzle loader. Bit like percussion back to flintlock Note no ramrod as planned Not sure about the snake side plate, I will change it, but it’s for the strength needed for the barrel pins.

Ps you can see a guy shooting a double BP 577/500 no2 on google. 140gr BP big 340gr bullet bang not to mention his shoulder ha ha

Love from far away across the big pond Gordon

 

[kyron4]

The OP made two post 16 years ago and never came back.

Still good info on the subject.

 

[Rudyard]

If a deep brass cart case had a hole to allow sparks it would seal to some extent no worse than some external cappers where can it go ? similar plans where made . Rebounder as most such locks are shouldnt impede the function you would however have the chamber very loose for any hard wadding be Ok with soft like paper . with some sort of liner for the chamber . The old full brass 'Perfects' might suit . never tried it but wont burst I wouldnt think.
Rudyard

Might have a pic. The rear end of the locks where inlet more thus wider at the front. You can bend both plate & scears to make it tidier, I traded for a big Danish rifled up Tige rifle and a once ' Best' double 24 bore flint by Wm Parker that had been put to the caps properly but Hermans friend cobbled up a ruination of a re conversion a double ugly mess !
(Lord Save the Drum & Nipple!) Its better now .I had it up on a farm we where harvesting Ide always helped as a sort of tithe .Anyway dinner time I had noticed wood Pidgeon's feeding on chick weed behind the farm so I loaded up and stalked them & knowing the guns propensity to fail & pulled both triggers & bowled 4 pidgins' with one shot . We where another time round & round in wheat the last pass often finds a fox they gave me the farms gun a double 12 nitro affair but out goes Brer Fox I up but never used such hammerless could'nt make it go off ! ..Fox no doubt approuved .Guns should have hammers some said hammers arn't safe but you can SEE if its cocked the H' less efforts are ALLWAYs cocked its just a safety they cant SEE keeps them safe? a classic case of blind faith.
I did own breach loaders Pinfires with nice twist barrels & Jones underlevers If invited to a Syndicate shoot Ide use that as I didn't own any nitro abomination .and still don't.
Waffling on Rudyard

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Was it old king George who said “ a shotgun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears “

 

[tallPercshooter]

I made a 20 ga ML from a single shot break-open modern barrel I paid $35 for online. Stock was two 3/4 maple boards from lumberyard laminated together. CVA percussion lock. I cut barrel off right in front of chamber, lots of metal left to thread in drum. Total investment was about $100. OK shooter but uglier than unvarnished sin.

 

[Rudyard]

I made a 20 ga ML from a single shot break-open modern barrel I paid $35 for online. Stock was two 3/4 maple boards from lumberyard laminated together. CVA percussion lock. I cut barrel off right in front of chamber, lots of metal left to thread in drum. Total investment was about $100. OK shooter but uglier than unvarnished sin.

Good on yer wise use of a barrel I've some got up rifles just old Ml barrels the rest just old bits So externaly rusted you cant see if its twist or Damascus but the bores where good a two grouve & a three winged projectile barrels been good rifles for many years the cap locks just ten rupee local India trade sort .In a way I'de prefer such got up of bits guns Ide not want a top' best '& priced accordingly gun. Regards Rudyard

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I had a pair of 12 g barrels I wanted to convert to ml but gave up too many issues with it. A 20 g would be better and more sensible . With the availability of barrels in the USA I don’t understand why bother with converting cartridge guns, unless you want a Damascus pattern, then double rifles are easy to make . I think the German trend would be to make it an over under as you don’t have the problems of regulating the barrels , most of all do what makes you happy I wish you well from across the pond .

 

[Gordoncourtney]

You have a long road ahead of you but it's been done. As luck would have it a 7/8 14 tap will screw right into the chamber of a modern 12 ga barrel.

Paul

Hello seems you know your stuff. I won some 28b shotgun barrels at Holts uk auction. £265, expensive but rare find. As new and unchambered ?? good as chopper lump barrels , no maker or proof . They are very light at 2.7lbs , my .36 double rifle barrels are 7 lbs. Rather make a whole new shotgun I found they were a good fit on the .36. So after much pondering I went for it. The chambers were partly bored ???? I thought 5/8” tap was a bit small but then 11/16 a bit tight. Both taps were old carbon steel. Anyway put the barrels muzzle in a revolving centre and tap in chuck . The chopper lumps held the barrel firm. And away we go. Perhaps the pre chambers were tapered ?? But the tap got very tight then disaster it broke, fortunately a pair of grips and the broken tap came out , , I had already ordered a die and now some taps on eBay. So be warned be very careful. Taps arriving 9 sep £14