USPFA Dragoon "in the white"

[sirdutch]

Hello

I purchased a 3rd model dragoon recently and I would like some input on it if anyone is interested. I posted on the THR forum a week or so ago too. Parts of this post are taken from there and I edited it for clarity.

It believe it was assembled by USPFA (or USFA) from what I believe to be U.S. and Uberti supplied parts. At least the barrel is Uberti as it is marked as such. (rather shallowly stamped it might add, under the loading lever). There are no proof marks on the face of the cylinder like I believe would be normal if it was an Uberti supplied cylinder and has no other marks other than the serial number "1937" in all the expected places. I purchased this one in a USPFA black box in the green vapor paper with a USPFA manual, color case hardened curved nipple wrench with spare nipples . It is "in the white". It is not. I repeat, not marked USPFA or USFA. It is in "like new" condition, at least to my untrained eye anyway. I believe it was originally sold in 2002 but I could be mistaken with that.

It seems that after Colt sued USPFA over the use of the word "Patent" in their name, USPFA changed their name to USFA, that USPFA boxed up the remaining cap and ball revolvers they had without marking them as USPFA or USFA and sold them. They then concentrated on manufacturing SAA's instead. It was not clear to me and I am still not sure if this revolver had any work done to them by USPFA or not or if Uberti manufactured these to any better or different standards than the ones they marketed themselves other than they were sold to USPFA "in the white". I've been told that USPFA never bought complete guns, just parts and forgings. They then assembled them to exacting specifications. The action on this gun along with fit and finish is superb. Again,oddly, there are no proof marks on the face of the cylinder that I would have expected after emailing a couple of guys, namely Dr. Jim L. Davis, Founder Replica Percussion Revolver Collector’s Association and Dennis Russell, author of "Percussion Colt Revolvers ”“ The Second Generation ”“ Collector’s Handbook & Price Guide".

My questions are:

Should I have this dragoon finished out with case hardening and bluing or should I leave it the way it is?

Would I lose any collector value with this revolver by finishing it out or would the fact that the revolver is not marked USPFA or USFA just relegate it to be an unfinished Uberti left "in the white"?

I paid $350 for the revolver, which is less than a new Uberti 3rd model dragoon, so no one tried to "sell me" on a USPFA gun. I believe it to be the "real McCoy". I invite anyone with any info that suggests that I might be wrong. I am here on this forum for the truth of the matter.

If anyone knows of a similar gun in a USPFA or USFA box that is not marked USPFA or USFA, please let me know.

All the best to everyone,

Meindert

 

[Long Johns Wolf]

FWIW: I visited USFA in Hartford around Feb. 2002 or 2003. There were racks full of percussion revolvers "in the white" sans visible markings and proof marks. At that time I was not particularly interested in C&B Revolvers so I do not remember which models that were. A bunch were 1851s and 1860s, however. I cannot exclude that there were Dragoons, too.
According to the gentleman from USFA who guided me around these pistols were from Uberti ... to be finished and sold eventually under the USFA label.
When I visited Uberti in Gardone a year later they confirmed a deal with USFA of semi-finished percussion revolvers. According to the Italian proof testing regulation "semi-finished" does not requiring proof testing.
Around 2008 a NIB USFA marked Colt 1851 pattern pistol was sold by a German gun dealer. There was a review article on it in one of the German gun magazines.
From a collector's point of view I would leave the Dragoon as it is.
Long Johns Wolf

 

[rafterob]

Why would these guns have a particular collector's value? At least any more so than any other companies imported reproduction revolver. Something special about USPFA/USFA that you could all enlighten me about? This is the first time I have ever seen reference to them.

 

[Long Johns Wolf]

Because they are a rare breed from USFA (no matter who made the semi-finished gun).
2nd & particularly 3rd gen Colt C&B Revolvers also have their Italian heritage and are collected.
Long Johns Wolf

 

[sirdutch]

Hello Mr. Long Johns Wolf

Thank you for all the information on my Dragoon. I am a little disappointed, however, that USPFA probably didn't do much work on this gun. That is what I am understanding from your post at any rate. Never the less, it is a quality piece and I am thrilled to have it. The truth is what I am after here.

When I figure out how to reduce the file size on my pics of the revolver I will post some here. It is really a cool looking cap and ball. I will keep it just as it is.

Italian replicas do have an interesting history all their own starting from the fact that they inspired Colt to start making them again at one point. They are an affordable and interesting alternative to all the other "real guns" out there. The way the laws are getting, they may be our only legal alternative if the folks out there don't take the time to defend their 2nd amendment rights. I hope that is not the case of course.

As a side note:

Muzzle loading, besides just being fun, for hunting game seems to be a fairer way to hunt. (at least from the hunted's prospective. :wink It is more challenging too!

Again, thank you sir.

Meindert

 

Uberti never made complete guns for USFA. They supplied raw, unfinished parts that were fitted and finished in the US.