value of a custom flintlock

[Geraldo]

I am thinking about getting a 54 cal.I can buy a new t/c hawken for $679.00 and i know that after i shoot it it will be worth half of what i paid for it.

Which is why you should buy one used if you really want one, that and I'm not sure if you can get a .54 from them any more.

The real question is why are you concerned about depreciation? If you want an investment, there are much better ways to earn (or lose) money over time than guns. Think about what type of rifle you want and what you want to spend on it, then buy it without worrying about what it will be worth in the future.

Now if you're looking for a way to justify the added expense of a custom rifle to your wife, just say so and we'll give you all the various mathematical formulas on why it's a better investment. :wink:

 

[Dave K]

Maybe it all depends on how fast you sell it after you purchase it. I bought a new T/C Hawken back in around '78 for $139 new, it as not a kit. I think I could have got more than I paid for it had I kept it. The Lyman GPR I own now, I paid $200 for in the same year. I can get more than I paid for it also. But, the "good" custom guns will many times bring more money faster. Of course, it depends not only who made them but how they are made. Some guys can take $800 worth of parts and because of skill plus earned reputation turn those parts into a gun that is worth many times over what the price of the parts was. Then there are other builders, that do not really know yet how to make the gun accurately and to a such a high skill level, take the same materials and make a $400 gun. Each gun has to be looked at on the merit of the gun itself and sometimes (not always) in higher priced guns, the name of the builder. There are some builders right now that are building such good guns and are yet not as well known, that someday we may be kicking ourselves for not investing in one of their guns. That is why you need to judge a gun on the way that gun was built and of course the quality of the parts used.

 

[redwing]

Buying rifles by known builders is never a bad investment. If your rifle is signed by Dr. White or R. Southgate it will always be worth more than one stamped Euroarms, Hy Hunter or a lesser known American gun smith. :hmm:

 

[matt denison]

I don't collect guns, I accumulate them. I often get them through opportunity at good prices and as Mike mentioned, I shoot them for a while, wring them out then swap/trade/sell them for the next one. I have only a couple of guns that I will keep forever, the rest seem to be liquidity no matter how much I like them when I buy them. I like to make a few bucks on every deal but sometimes it goes the other way. I saw a certain pistol that I fell in love with. It was over priced by 30 - 50% (used). But I WANTED IT. It appealed to me reguardless of the actual value so I bought it. I still have it, am probably "stuck" with it but I don't care. See how that works? In this case it wasn't the builder's reputation or future resale value. It was simple customer appeal that set the price of that pistol.

L. Dog

 

[Dphar]

I am thinking about getting a 54 cal.I can buy a new t/c hawken for $679.00 and i know that after i shoot it it will be worth half of what i paid for it.

Which is why you should buy one used if you really want one, that and I'm not sure if you can get a .54 from them any more.

The real question is why are you concerned about depreciation? If you want an investment, there are much better ways to earn (or lose) money over time than guns. Think about what type of rifle you want and what you want to spend on it, then buy it without worrying about what it will be worth in the future.

Now if you're looking for a way to justify the added expense of a custom rifle to your wife, just say so and we'll give you all the various mathematical formulas on why it's a better investment. :wink:

One must ask oneself how is it that they can make a ML for 300 bucks or so to the factory when the barrel for a good custom runs 180-250? Its because they are not fitted they are assembled. They are designed for mass production but someone whose only knowledge or interest in MLs was that they could make money selling a cheap ML when the Rendezvous movement took off in the late 60s early 70s.
Yeah but I don't know anyone with a stock certificate he takes out to look at and shoot now and then.
Someone on the thread mentioned that customs were made with purchased parts, many are, but then very few gunsmiths made their own locks and barrels in colonial times so???

There is also a vast difference in "customs" I replaced the barrel on one that was not worth more than the parts it was made of less the stock.
Others are real treasures. Even at 4-5000 they are bargains.

I think this wender was made about 1970 by Don King.

And yes he made most of the parts in shop. Just like the other two guns in the top photo.
In fact on the Hawken and the pistol he made just about everything but the barrel and castings like the cock and frizzen and some springs. Buttplate, TG, set triggers, sights, pipes, forend cap, lock plate, breech plug, keys, underlugs.
All three of these guns are largely shop made from barstock and sheet and a maple blank.
Yeah, a work of art, all three are for that matter. But the present owner hunts with all of them now and then.
You can't do that with a stock certificate.

Dan

 

[redwing]

So well said. :thumbsup:

 

[Geraldo]

Dan, I'm not saying that stock options are more fun than rifles, or that firearms cannot appreciate in value. However, if return on investment is what one wants, firearms are not the best way to go.

If one wants a custom built rifle: buy or build one. If one will be satisfied with a production rifle, then buy one of those. If one wants to earn dividends or have double digit appreciation, talk to a broker.

When buying, I don't have to convince myself of anything about a gun other than my desire to own it.

 

[steve nagy]

Dan, I'm not saying that stock options are more fun than rifles, or that firearms cannot appreciate in value. However, if return on investment is what one wants, firearms are not the best way to go.

If one wants a custom built rifle: buy or build one. If one will be satisfied with a production rifle, then buy one of those. If one wants to earn dividends or have double digit appreciation, talk to a broker.

When buying, I don't have to convince myself of anything about a gun other than my desire to own it.

I agree in that buying a firearm is somewhat akin to buying art. It is usually not recommended that one buy a piece of art from an artist for the potential future increase in value. It is such a manure shoot due to a wide variety of factors. Buy the piece because you like it and you appreciate it intrinsically. Perhaps if really lucky your descendants will have a nice work to keep as an heirloom or they will have a great time with the money they make from selling it at 500% of what you paid for it! If inflation is taken into account, then, yes, most firearms are usually not a solid investment.

 

I, also, have given some thought and research to acquiring a “custom” flintlock. But in my case I think I will build it myself. Please take no offence to this but basically from what I can learn most custom guns are actually custom stocks. Because the makers buy locks, that anyone can buy and barrels, that anyone can buy and build those wonderful works of art. I have a complete wood shop and some walnut that I have stored for 30 years that is gorgeous. I have been toying with some jigs to inlet parts with my router. I have two sets of kitchen cabinets to make and just maybe the gun could be next.

That's not necessarily true. I am right now waiting for a custom flintlock from one of the better gunmakers in Michigan (Dennis Priddy...I'll give him a plug), and he makes his own patchboxes, side plates, triggers, and many other parts aside from just the stock.

 

[Dave K]

You are so right Douglasd. There is SO much more than putting a barrel and lock into a piece of wood. There is the artistry of layout and design. The "school", that needs to be thought of to make a gun of potential future value. Many places have the wood inletted for barrel and lock, but that hardly comes close yet,to building a complete gun that has value. Beleive me, I am into my first build, so though this is my only experience. Everytime I work on it, I get surprises. Some things tell me I was mentally making it harder than it is, sometimes I feel dummier than I am and sometimes I just plain learn something new. It can be like saying I have a tool box full of tools, therefore I can restore anything that needs a wrench. Well, some can, some won't but can and some shouldn't, if their heart is not into it doing it right. Now, I have repaired/restored many things including cars, motorcycles and guns, but building is not really the same. :surrender:

 

[Birddog6]

The store bought rifle will always be worth what the going rate for the ML's like it are worth. Generally 1/2 of what it cost new.
One big dif in a custom rifle is like art, when the guy kicks the bucket, if the guy was a good builder, the price will take a Huge jump as there are no more from him & people know it = much better resale value. IMHO. Look at a John Bivins rifle, when he was alive you could buy one for 2-3k. Now he is gone they cost 2 times that price or more, & the fancy ones he built go for 5-10 times that price..

 

[Mike Brooks]

The store bought rifle will always be worth what the going rate for the ML's like it are worth. Generally 1/2 of what it cost new.
One big dif in a custom rifle is like art, when the guy kicks the bucket, if the guy was a good builder, the price will take a Huge jump as there are no more from him & people know it = much better resale value. IMHO. Look at a John Bivins rifle, when he was alive you could buy one for 2-3k. Now he is gone they cost 2 times that price or more, & the fancy ones he built go for 5-10 times that price..

The lesson here? Buy from good gun builders with gray hair that don't look very healthy.... :haha:

 

[Birddog6]

:bow: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[vern faulkner]

It's been said that too many know the price of everything, and the value of nothing. Vern

 

[gizamo]

Mike,

Soooo, how you been feelin' lately...? :grin:

giz

 

[ebiggs1]

I, also, have given some thought and research to acquiring a “custom” flintlock. But in my case I think I will build it myself. Please take no offence to this but basically from what I can learn most custom guns are actually custom stocks. Because the makers buy locks, that anyone can buy and barrels, that anyone can buy and build those wonderful works of art. I have a complete wood shop and some walnut that I have stored for 30 years that is gorgeous. I have been toying with some jigs to inlet parts with my router. I have two sets of kitchen cabinets to make and just maybe the gun could be next.

That's not necessarily true. I am right now waiting for a custom flintlock from one of the better gunmakers in Michigan (Dennis Priddy...I'll give him a plug), and he makes his own patchboxes, side plates, triggers, and many other parts aside from just the stock.

With all due respect, to the wonderful pieces that are coming out of the makers shops, read the ads and you will see most use off the shelf locks and barrels. And yes, anyone can buy them. Now I don’t know if I can even build one but how will I know if I don’t try. I am a cabinetmaker in retirement and was a tool die maker for 40 years. Maybe what I build will be junk but just maybe, just maybe it will not.

 

[David W.]

I, also, have given some thought and research to acquiring a “custom” flintlock. But in my case I think I will build it myself. Please take no offence to this but basically from what I can learn most custom guns are actually custom stocks. Because the makers buy locks, that anyone can buy and barrels, that anyone can buy and build those wonderful works of art. I have a complete wood shop and some walnut that I have stored for 30 years that is gorgeous. I have been toying with some jigs to inlet parts with my router. I have two sets of kitchen cabinets to make and just maybe the gun could be next.

That's not necessarily true. I am right now waiting for a custom flintlock from one of the better gunmakers in Michigan (Dennis Priddy...I'll give him a plug), and he makes his own patchboxes, side plates, triggers, and many other parts aside from just the stock.

With all due respect, to the wonderful pieces that are coming out of the makers shops, read the ads and you will see most use off the shelf locks and barrels. And yes, anyone can buy them. Now I don’t know if I can even build one but how will I know if I don’t try. I am a cabinetmaker in retirement and was a tool die maker for 40 years. Maybe what I build will be junk but just maybe, just maybe it will not.

With all due respect. My rifle IS NOT off the shelf production parts. The lock on my rifle is entirely hand made, and it shows, that is much higher quality than L&R. The patch box was cut by hand and has a hidden release, the thimbles and nose cap are hand made, the triggers are hand made and the trigger guard are hand made. The inlays are solid silver, not plated. The stock it was made from was twenty years old. The only thing that was purchased seperately was the H&H match grade barrel. Even the front and rear sights are hand made. I partially built the rifle, but I am not good at carving so I sent the rifle to him for completion. This is not a production rifle by any means!!!

I had L&R parts, but he insisted that I use his parts. The lock plate is bronze and the lock parts are tool steel. The trigger must be set to fire.

 

[ebiggs1]

Please note I never said ALL customs were off the shelf. I am sure your gun is wonderful. I also never proclaimed L&R locks were the way to go. I have four different “brands” of locks here and they all work very well. A custom gun is a hard item to define.

 

[tg]

"With all due respect, to the wonderful pieces that are coming out of the makers shops, read the ads and you will see most use off the shelf locks and barrels"


For what it is worth during the colonial period and at times later the locks and barrels and even furniture at times was imported from Europe,few of the original guns we drool over were custom if the bulider had to make all his own components,this is no different than now with the same parts available from other sources being used by many builders

 

[ebiggs1]

I agree totally.