Vent Hole Liners YA or NA

[akapennypincher]

Question for you builder, do you use a Vent Hole liner, or Not.


If so why, as we just had one going flying out at the range :shake:

 

[Swampman]

First off, they should never be removed once they are installed with red Loctite. They probably shouldn't be used in thin walled barrels. I prefer to have one, but they aren't necessary. Not everyone that builds guns, should be building guns.

 

[Legionair]

As I understand it, the liner is there to protect the barrel itself, correct?

I understand not wanting to stress the threads by repeated removal and installation, but wouldn't ocassional removal to keep the liner from siezing be a good idea? :hmm:

No offense meant, I'm kinda new around here....

Just an opinion.....

Legion

 

[Swampman]

The only reason I can see to remove a liner is to replace it. They are sometimes used to repair a burned out touch hole. Most people use them to accelerate/improve ignition. If installed with red Loctite, you'd have to drill them and use an ease out after warming them up a bit I'd imagine. I normally render them non-removable by filing the slots off and polishing them smooth with the barrel. The barrel is cleaned the same way it would be if there was no liner.

 

[Zonie]

I use vent hole liners in the Flintlocks I build.

If properly done, they are more than strong enough to safely work with the pressures from black powder loads.

The main reason I use them is they can be easily coned or enlarged on the inside.
This serves two purposes. It allows the main powder charge to be closer to the pan and it reduces the distance the pan powder flame front has to travel thru the small vent hole.
Many feel this greatly increases the reliability of the Flintlock.

I am not disputing your comment about one of them flying off of a gun at your range, but I am trying to figure out why this would happen.

My best guess is the threads were stripped on either the liner, the barrel or both.
IMO,this would also require the priming pan depth to be so deep that it exposes most, if not all of the liner.
If the pan wasn't too deep, the liner may have been installed too high, relative to the bottom of the priming pan.

My reason for saying this is the inside surface of the locks plate (the bolster) should be tight against the side of the barrel and this area of the bolster should be covering the lower area of the vent liner.
If this is true, it means the lock cannot be installed with the liner partially unscrewed from the barrel.

Just a thought.

 

[Dave K]

Properly fitted vent liners are no more dangerous than a drum or nipple. I agree, my vents come out when I replace them. The same can be said for my nipples and drums.

 

[tg]

I have chosen not to use them any more as the type of guns I typicaly use would not have had one and a simple 5/64 hole coned a bit on the inside gives good ignition and probably an ignition closer in function to that of the originals which is something I prefer to duplicate as much as possible throughout the entire gun, so to try and duplicate the experience as much as posssible.

 

[Legionair]

Neither of my rifles are custom, but both have liners and they are partially covered as you state.

I've been removing my liners to make sure they don't sieze.

Right or wrong, that's how I been doing it.

Legion

 

[Swampman]

If they siezed, it wouldn't matter. They should never be removed.

 

[rich pierce]

Good question, and glad we cleared it up that vent liners are NOT to be removed. That vent liners could and should be removed is simply a new and needless idea put forth by a few manufacturers who have shown over and over again that they think they know better than the folks who brought the flintlock to its highest level of perfection.

OK- this a question I am facing right now with a F&I War period rifle I am building.
Plus side for installing vent liners on a new build:
1) Folks want them. They have fancy names. Who can resist, "White Lightning"? Who wouldn't want that?
2) Folks believe they give faster, more reliable ignition. But there are no tests that I know of that have been carefully done, to prove one way or another, and it is VERY difficult to do good tests with flintlocks (the flint is a factor and it varied during a shooting session).

Downside for installing vent liners on a new build:
1) It just wasn't done here in America. Liners were to fix worn-out touch holes.
2) Related to 1 above- they often are quite visible, so they not only are not authentic, the guns looks wrong for re-enactors unless it is a well-used gun.
3) Improperly installed, they will collect more gunk and SLOW ignition, or catch the ramrod or patch.
4) For the builder, it's just extra work.

But- 95% of the time the customer wants one and gets one. Best compromise for a new gun that closely approximates originals is to make or buy one of steel, so it becomes nearly invisible.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've built nearly 250 guns. All of them except for a couple have had liners. All liners are not created equal. I used to use the Ampco liners and modified them by boring out the inside cone even larger. These were really fast liners when I was done with them. Then Chambers came out with his "White Lightnin'" liners and that's all I use. These liners are incredibly fast, just as fast as any cap gun.
I have never put a liner in a gun with a screw driver slot, not even if the customer requested it. Once I put a liner in I don't expect it to be taken out untill the liner is burnt out. It takes sevral thousand heavy rounds to burn out a stainless steel liner. When I change out a liner I drill it out and back it out with an easy out. This liner removal operation is also the only time your barrel should be removed from the stock.

 

[Roy]

This liner removal operation is also the only time your barrel should be removed from the stock.

:thumbsup:

Thats the way I see it. :v

 

When I built my jaeger I first just drilled a 1/16" hole through the barrel and my ignition sucked. I then installed a generic liner, filed the screw slot flush and drilled it out to 5/64" and Wham! Insantly improved ignition with no hangfires,delays or misfires( knock on wood). I don't even have to pick my vent or wipe the pan or frizzen off much. I can actually see the grains of powder through the vent hole so I know things are in order for quick ignition. I use ffg and no powder seems to leak out the vent.

 

[aragorn]

Is it common practice to use Loctite or similar? I'd read that a tight enough fit could be got by easing off on the tap so the final threads are shallower, thus giving the threads on the liner some metal to bite into.

I have no intention of ever removing my liner once installed.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've never used locktite.

 

[Swampman]

As long as they can only be removed with an ease out, I'm sure they don't need to have Locite. As a Harley owner I can't stop myself from using Loctite. I also get dozens of bottles of Loctite for free. Every type and grade.

 

[AZ-Robert]

When I built my jaeger I first just drilled a 1/16" hole through the barrel and my ignition sucked. I then installed a generic liner...

I bought a gun with only the hole drilled through the barrel... after about the third shot ignition was very problematic. Mike Brooks put a liner in it for me and now that gun has very reliable ignition. I'm a believer.

If you leave the barrel in the white, the liner is going to be pretty close to invisible.

 

[jim/wa]

i am at that stage right now i got the hole marked and ready to drilli have about 1/16 forward of breechplug do you need to remove plug to drill and maybefile a little groove in plug i have the liner with slot in it any advise appreciated this is my first build

 

[Herb]

Increasing the flash hole from 1/16" to 5/64" probably made the difference, even without the interior coning of the flash liner. I had a rifle I built with a drilled hole, thought I needed a White Lightning, put it in and the performance was terrible- maybe 30 percent flashes in the pan. Nobody tells you they may have to be drilled larger than the 1/16" they come- like up to 5/64". When I did that, performance was flawless. Just like the .080 drilled flash hole in my Henry Albright .54 Lancaster I built.

Swampman- I have a friend here who bought a new Harley in Salt Lake City years ago. Rode it 175 miles to here, and couldn't keep the bolts and screws tight on it. Traded it in on a Yamaha or some other bike, probably 1200 size. He would sure understand your Loctite comments!

 

I had to remove the plug and cut out an area for the larger diameter liner. It's sorta like a shallow scooped out gutter to allow for the vent liner hole and to bring the main charge back to the channel. I smoothed the face out to a bright finish but I do wonder how clean that recessed area gets. I get 100% fast ingnition as long as my flint does it's job and I do mine.