Very big French boxlock o/u pistol

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fitap

32 Cal.
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Dear Colleagues,
I've been a passive reader of this forum, now I would like to ask for some information. Even though my questions regard a European pistol, I hope that somebody has run across something similar here. I have just acquired this:


(you can click the pictures to see bigger size)

It looks like a typical travelling boxlock of the mid-XIX century, until you compare them side by side:



OK, the smaller one is a pocket pistol, but still, the big one is much bigger than typical percussion boxlocks:



Bore size is equivalent to 12 GA:



It bears St. Etienne (French) post-1869 proofmarks:

PICT0979a.jpg


The design is simple, workmanship rough. It should have been rather cheap at its time.

My questions are:

- who was this kind of pistols designed for and against what/whom?

- how common they were? I haven't seen anything that big with a boxlock in books or on the Internet, but I was told they were not so rare at all. So it seems it's only me who hasn't seen them :)

- is it possible to estimate the manufacturing date more accurately? I suppose that it must have been obsolete shortly after it was made?

- how did the front sight look like, and was there any front sight at all? It seems that the barrels have been shortened recently.

I would appreciate any piece of information, particularly pictures of this kind of handguns. It fascinates mi with its shape and size ;) and because the barrels seem to be in a very healthy condition (except ridiculous attempts of "restoration" on the outside), I would like to bring it to a shootable condition (at the moment springs are broken and nipples must be replaced). Then it might be an original French equivalent to the Brittish "Howdah hunter".
 
Very interesting. It does look like the barrels have been cut recently. Also, the bores seems very out of round.
 
That's true. There are very broad but shallow grooves and the bore shape seems to be a little bit... squared. Is it just poor quality or there was some reason behind it - another question.
 
“the bores seems very out of round.”

I think that may be just the rifling that makes it look like that

Neat looking beast, I like it.
Would like to see a picture of the right side of the gun.



William Alexander
 
Would like to see a picture of the right side of the gun.

Here you go:


On the right side somebody tried to solder ramrod tubes. I think at the same time when the barrels were cut.
 
Very Cool! And welcome to the forum :thumbsup:

Is quite a beast you have there, looks like a double barreled shotguns barrels cut down and flipped sideways.. do you intend to eventually shoot your pistol?
 
Thanks for posting the last picture. I was thinking the ramrod had been on that side
I don’t remember seeing anything quite that large.


William Alexander
 
No need for a front sight obviously. :wink: It is a cool looking object. I looked part of the way down the list of French firearms on the littlegun.be site for similar photos but fell asleep.
 
It does look somewhat like Henry rifling but that makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Must be cut off.
 
JonnyReb said:
do you intend to eventually shoot your pistol?

I'd like to. There's no rust on and inside the barrels, but the nipple seats and channels from the nipples down to the barrels are clogged with rust and dirt. I haven't cleaned that yet, so I don't know how deep the rusting is. And I will have to find or make nipples with matching threads, because it is nothing typical (or re-thread the seats).
 
dyemaker said:
I looked part of the way down the list of French firearms on the littlegun.be site for similar photos but fell asleep.

Thank you for directing me to this great site. I looked through the whole list of French gunmakers but to no success. No surprise, however, because they present more elaborate firearms, very few simple boxlocks as this one. Still, it was fun to browse pictures!
 
It is most liklely straight rifled with no twist. That is used sometimes today to keep a tighter shot pattern. A ball and straight rifling would impart no spin.
 
I think the wide and very flat grooves are that of the French Minié-system which was in use with pistols of the French army until 1870.
corrado26
 
Though your pistol MAY have been a "Howdah" Type Hunting Pistol, I think it more likely it was for one of the two following uses:

1. A "Coach Mans" Pistol. We forget that Highwaymen/Robbers plagued the roads on the Continent and in Britain during this period. A Coachman or Waggoneer probably only had to POINT this pistol at a Highwayman to get the robber to back off and leave the area QUICKLY, if the driver looked like he was willing to use it.

2. A Pistol for Naval Use by Ship's Captains or other Officers. Merchant Ship's Captains and Officers needed them as much as Naval Officers and by the lower quality, this may have been intended for Merchant Ship use.

Gus
 
Looking closely down the barrels I have an impression that actually there's no riffling there. Instead, the barrels really seem to be squarish. I started to think that maybe this was intented to allow loading the pistol with large buckshot more efficiently? For such a pistol used for self defence large buckshot should be the most suitable load. Making the barrels squarish allowed loading 4 large balls in a single layer in a such a way:

muzzle2.jpg


Barrel length is limited here, so the pistol loaded in this way could be a bit more effective than one with just plain round barrels. Do you think it makes any sense?
 
It makes sense to me! The only thing that I might add is that the ramrod would have to be perfectly flat on the loading end to make perfect contact with all four balls equally when pushed down the bore and seated on the charge. Thankyou for sharing your insight. Respectfully, Cowboy :hatsoff:
 
The "rifling" looks like it is for the key that unscrews the barrels, but that makes no sense at all :confused:
 
Piotr Fita said:
Would like to see a picture of the right side of the gun.

Here you go:


On the right side somebody tried to solder ramrod tubes. I think at the same time when the barrels were cut.
I just noticed, Is this pistol made for a lefty? Looks like a left hander to me? Respectfully, Cowboy :hmm:
 
The right trigger is in the front, the left one in the back. But I think that it is typical for guns held in the right hand.
 

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