Very few fawns....wolves?

[Vaino]

While sitting on my deer stand, the thought arose as to why so few fawns, if any, were seen the last few seasons. This season I saw mainly adult does in pairs but no fawns. Seeing a "first time" doe has a single fawn and thereafter has at least 2 or 3 fawns.... why the lack of fawns? While registering some deer at the local tavern, I asked some local hunters this same question and their response was that the pack of 11 timber wolves {DNR tally from the air} in our area needs an awful lot of meat to survive. In addition, coyotes and black bears possibly crop some fawns, but these were present in good numbers when a lot of fawns were seen in years past, so are a minimal threat to fawns. I like to hear the wolves howl and don't wish for their annihilation but on the other hand, how long can this local deer herd survive w/o fawn survival? Quite a few valuable bear dogs have been killed by wolves either during the training seesions or the actual hunts. I don't think our area is an exception and seeing the wolves are flourishing and moving south in Wisconsin, some sort of control is in order. This is a reversal of my thinking asre wolves, but not controlling them will surely cause trouble for the deer herd but also for the wolves themselves....Fred

 

[jtmattison]

not controlling them will surely cause trouble for the deer herd but also for the wolves themselves....Fred

It sure will. Wolves do need a lot of meat to survive. It's great to see species re-introduced to their former home range but the area has to be ready to support them. I believe there is a reason why they no longer exist in some areas in the first place. The changing environment couldn't support them.

HD

 

[ehepp]

I don't think the wolves are the problem, only a convenient scapegoat. Black bears are known to prey heavily on fawns. They are hungry in the spring and have good enough noses to find the fawns. In my hunting area in northern Wisconsin the black bear population has increased greatly over the last few years. Even so I haven't noticed a drop in the number of fawns I see in the fall.

We also used to have a lot of coyote but recently wolves have established themselves pushing them out. The two don't mix well. I figure the wolves won't eat many more deer than the coyote did, and there sure as hell aren't as many wolves. I have seen many coyote killed deer in the past and think that they ate plenty of young deer.

Just my 2-cents but the answers in the natural world are never simple and rarely are caused by one factor.

 

[Vaino]

We hunt the Clark county forest in Wisconsin and it sits in between mostly farmland and isn't a huge area although quite extensive. The black bear and coyote populations have been high in this area for years but the fawns survived in great numbers until the advent of this pack of 11 wolves. Have hunted this area nearly every year since 1949 and have never witnessed such low fawn numbers. The only thing that has changed is this pack of wolves......Fred

 

[Little Wattsy]

Much like HD, im neither for nor agenst a species that FITS into an ecosystem...I get rather peeved however that so meny dough headed Liberals want to place man on the lowest rung of the food chain.

Here is an example of wolf destruction in Idaho http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/idaho_fg_wolves_hitting_north.html

The point is If I dont EVER see another wolf or grizzly in my life time MY world will NOT quit spinning. I WOULD find it more amuseing to see them reintroduced in thier native habitate like Orange Co. California, Downtown Chicago, or prehaps a fresh new start in lower Manhattan. Elk and deer are in short supply....Vagrants and house cats we got plenty of.

A serious point, I guess, is that even a retard should be ably to come up with sustainable numbers and goals. Deer and Elk for man's consumption FIRST. THEN if we have extra add another predator in as will be sustained and if that is ONLY three wolves then barbaque the rest.
Obviously government regulators are about 3 rungs UNDER retard.

 

[rabjr]

First thing man has ever done when moving into an area was eradicate any other predator that may live there. We don't like to share. Thats fine, I don't want share either and can't stand to see a coyote roaming my hunting area. If they want to reintroduce wolves into big tract of lands like Yellowstone that's fine but it's totally irresponsible to reintroduce them near populated areas.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have been hunting the same elk hunting unit for 15 years. To be honest I have used it as my own personal meat locker. I have killed an elk there every year I wanted one. This year I had a bull tag. Granted I did see several elk in fact I saw close to 80 head. I never saw ONE trophy quality bull. In past years this area was filthy with elk. I could see over 500 elk here in a week of hunting. over the last 5 years it has been getting worse. Now this year I saw the fewest elk ever and the lowest bull count ever, and we also saw our first wolf pack.
The number of elk tags has been cut in half last year. I will be disappointed if they allow ANY cow hunts and I feel that the bull tags should be cut by 75%. And not in just this unit but the surrounding units as well.
Wolves are moving into every part of the state. it will be only a matter of time before elk and Muledeer hunting will have to be cut to help them to survive. How with the F&G survive if hunting goes away with the deer and elk? Ron

 

[wvbuckbuster]

We don't have any wolfs here in WV that I am aware of but plenty of coyotes. Shot one of a pair that came by my stand at daylight this past week. The neighbor told me a coyote stampeed his cattle and tore out about 50ft of fence that same day. We sure don't like these critters so I feel for your problem.

 

[rdillion]

Hear, Hear, The black bears here in Arkansas have become a real problem. Just have one get into your cabin sometime and see what I mean. My buddy that I hunt with has a shoot on sight order for anyone invited to hunt on his property. Can you imagine being a settler with a wife and family and having a bear destroy your crops, garden, corn crib, and kill your milk cow or other livestock and all in one night? What would you do to feed your family? How would you make it though the winter? To me this is the main reason our ancestors eradicated these animals. Oh, and don't forget about the snakes.

 

[Vaino]

I don't want to see Wisconsin wolves eradicated....just controlled. The initial stocking of wolves was in the northwestern part of the state which is very sparsely inhabited and contains very large tracts of land that is mostly state and federally owned. But the wolves out grew their area and the younger wolves left the pack and started a new pack elsewhere. This happens quite often and the migration is toward the southern part of the state which is mainly farm land with some large expanses of wild country. Wolves are presenly protected but some controlled hunting or trapping should be allowed to reduce their numbers.......Fred

 

[Bud Jenks]

We have observed poor fawn recruitment on your farm in the eastern UP of MI the last two years. The farm has been in my family for almost a hundred years so we have experienced the deer population rise and decline based on harsh winter weather. There has always been bear,coyotes,bobcats,and even cougars over the years, we saw the first wolf ten years ago a single animal not a pair or pack. Now there is a pair of wolves, saw them the evening before opening day of gun season 11-14 in a field 150 yards from the house chasing mice. My cousins wife and I saw them both on opening day. My cousin this wife and myself saw 20 does but only 3 fawns for the season, last year we saw 5 fawns most of the does appeared to be mature not 18 month old animals. Based on passed experience it appears that the wolves are having a negative impact on the local deer herd. Single wolves don't seem to cause the problems that packs or pairs do. I'm headed back Saturday for the muzzle loading deer season, but there is already 12” of snow on the level and looks like the start of another hard winter for the deer. The wolf population is at the point where there needs to be some type of control put in place. I believe that the MI and WI DNR have both under estimated the wolf population and don't believe their numbers from personal experience.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Yooper47

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I have been hunting the same elk hunting unit for 15 years. To be honest I have used it as my own personal meat locker. I have killed an elk there every year I wanted one. This year I had a bull tag. Granted I did see several elk in fact I saw close to 80 head. I never saw ONE trophy quality bull. In past years this area was filthy with elk. I could see over 500 elk here in a week of hunting. over the last 5 years it has been getting worse. Now this year I saw the fewest elk ever and the lowest bull count ever, and we also saw our first wolf pack.
The number of elk tags has been cut in half last year. I will be disappointed if they allow ANY cow hunts and I feel that the bull tags should be cut by 75%. And not in just this unit but the surrounding units as well.
Wolves are moving into every part of the state. it will be only a matter of time before elk and Muledeer hunting will have to be cut to help them to survive. How with the F&G survive if hunting goes away with the deer and elk? Ron

Ron are you in the pan handle,
I have noticed a drop in elk and moose # in the last ten years in Yaak MT.
and a whole lot more wolves.
:shake:

 

[Idaho Ron]

I was off last week for elk hunting. I saw some bulls, in fact I passed on several 5 points and smaller. I am hunting in the eastern side of the state. The elk are just too beat down by the wolves for me to shoot a small bull.
I hear that northern Id has been hit harder. Ron

 

[bigbore442001]

Petition to have a limited wolf hunting and trapping season. It sounds like you need to cut down the predator numbers.I'll refrain from stating what I would do if it were my farm for the sake of civility but I think people can guess what that would be. :thumbsup:

As far as black bear, start hunting some of them. Bear meat is wonderful if prepared well and you have some wonderful fat for various projects such as patch or conical bullet lube( when mixed with something like beeswax) as well as a great shortening. I know some Indians who claim it is good for arthritis. Maybe they know something we don't?

 

[mazo kid]

Fred, we have noticed a decline also but attributed it to being in the Eradication Zone and also the harsh winter. I have a buddy who lives just outside of Neillsville and close to the Clark Co. Forest and I thought he said there were over 30 wolves in the area. There are a lot of coyotes here and black bears have been seen in our area, just 2-3 miles as the crow flies from the Wis. River, but for us the problem probably is the 'yotes and the winter.

 

[Vaino]

If in fact there are 30 wolves in the Clark county forest, it's a worse situation than I thought. To top it off, the forest cruiser marked most of the trees for selective cutting in our area so will have to look for another spot. The problem w/ selective cutting is that the heavy equipment debarks a lot of the "saved trees" so why not clear cut? Thanks for the info....Fred

 

[Blizzard of '93]

here in W.North Carolina and Upper S. Carolina coyotes are bredding like flies. in frontier days there were grey wolves here, eradicated in early 1800's by trapping them. there have even been reports of coyote attacks on humans here.

 

[bigbore442001]

Time to start trapping those wretched things. That is the only way to cut their numbers down. Here in Massachusetts we have a coyotoe problem but the trouble is that we can't use anything but a box trap on land. The whole situation stinks.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Hve you thought of organizing winter " drives" with the drivers wearing blaze orange vests and hats, carrying shotguns( BP of course!) and the blockers armed with both rifles and shotguns?? You can post a couple of riflemen with modern guns with scopes behind the drivers to shoot any coyote that slips through the lines. CB radios, cellphones, and walkie talkies can be used to keep people organized and to alert the drivers when they are approaching the blockers.

If you have any sportsman's clubs, or gun clubs in your area, propose this as a Winter activity. You will need to scout territory to find where the coyotes are hunting. Leaving out bait is not such a bad idea, either. The hides can be sold and the money used to off-set the cost of the hunt. And, of course, you need permission of the landowners to do such a hunt. Since they feel the predation of the coyotes, that is not as big a problem as getting permission to hunt deer, these days.

Just a thought. This kind of thing has been done for years now in Coles County, ILLINOIS, ( Charleston- about 175 miles South of Chicago,on the Indiana border)by a local sportsman's club. They meet at an all nite diner for breakfast, organize the teams, and head out to their assigned positions. They try not to freeze anyone, but dress for the weather. They don't stay out long on any given drive. and after driving a few sections of ground, retired to the diner for more breakfast and go home. Its a weekend activity that goes on through most of January, and into February. With all the guys participating, it is a lot of fun, and a great way to get to know each other.

They don't kill all the coyotes- the older members say that they only kill the dumb ones-- but they have kept a dent in the coyote population, which has been good public relations for all the rural land owners, including the liberal anti-gun professors and instructors at Easter Illinois University. No one seems to object, and there have been no pickets showing up on those cold morning to protest shooting those " dogs". :rotf: :thumbsup:

 

[10 gauge]

It is a fact that yotes and wolves have been breeding together in some areas. This is a big problem and not good.
We all need to shoot every yote on site and wolves if you are able in your area :wink: .
The sad part is that us few hunters wont be able to really put a dent in the population, this is an epidemic thats now out of control.
My wife has two cats that are for killing the scorpions at the house, but they can never go out side because of our yote problem we have. Also you cant have a small dog out side or it will be ate by yotes.
The only positive thing is that we have plenty of live yote targets but I would rather just see less of them and have more edible game.