Very few fawns....wolves?

[asabai]

I would think fawn numbers are down mainly from the harsh winter we had. I don't think predation by wolves would be as great as those by black bears, there are many more of them.

We have been both blessed and cursed (CWD,car collisions etc.) by too many deer in much of WI. A little predation is a good thing. Wolves proved much more adaptable than anyone thought, once people stopped shooting them, that is. However, it is only a matter of time before some type of hunting season is necessary. Other wise we will have wolves rummaging for garbage and gobbling up dogs and cats in our cities. I can't say I would feel bad for the cats.

Wolves and bears won't eat all our deer. Just remember we had wolves, bears, cougars and Indians in WI before settlement and it was a hunters' paradise with bison, moose, elk, caribou, and deer too.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I would think fawn numbers are down mainly from the harsh winter we had. I don't think predation by wolves would be as great as those by black bears, there are many more of them.

We have been both blessed and cursed (CWD,car collisions etc.) by too many deer in much of WI. A little predation is a good thing. Wolves proved much more adaptable than anyone thought, once people stopped shooting them, that is. However, it is only a matter of time before some type of hunting season is necessary. Other wise we will have wolves rummaging for garbage and gobbling up dogs and cats in our cities. I can't say I would feel bad for the cats.

Wolves and bears won't eat all our deer. Just remember we had wolves, bears, cougars and Indians in WI before settlement and it was a hunters' paradise with bison, moose, elk, caribou, and deer too.

Wolves and bears won't eat all our deer. Just remember we had wolves, bears, cougars and Indians in WI before settlement and it was a hunters' paradise with bison, moose, elk, caribou, and deer too. :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull:

You might try another shot at basic biology 101 and study that part about the cycle of predation: Predators (aside from man) WILL eat all the prey and when it is gone they will die off from starvation and desiese. When the predator numbers are down the prey will bread its self back into larger numbers anmd the cucle begins anew. I dont want to wait for good hunting 3 years out of 15 but YOU might decide to donate YOUR game to another preditor so YOU can stay home VS hunting.

 

[10 gauge]

Our lions here in AZ take on average one deer a week for each cat. So if these animals dont do that much damage, how come the Game & Fish Dept wont let each sportsman take one deer a week for the year? Yes I agree that weather has big role in game numbers, but dont tell me that preditors dont! I have had a lion beat me to my buck in under 45 minutes, that was the bleed out time I gave the deer I had hit with an arrow. The cat left me with less then 50% of the meat which I didnt trust so it was boiled and given to my dog.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Our lions here in AZ take on average one deer a week for each cat. So if these animals dont do that much damage, how come the Game & Fish Dept wont let each sportsman take one deer a week for the year? Yes I agree that weather has big role in game numbers, but dont tell me that preditors dont! I have had a lion beat me to my buck in under 45 minutes, that was the bleed out time I gave the deer I had hit with an arrow. The cat left me with less then 50% of the meat which I didnt trust so it was boiled and given to my dog.

EXACTLY! :cursing: :cursing: :cursing: And wolves arnt much better if not worse!

 

[tjohnson56]

From what I understand in order to survive wolfs need to kill one deer a week per adult wolf. I hunt between Clam Lake and Upson areas in Wisconsin.

This year talking to loggers and locals I found out that there are three different packs in the area surrounding Clam Lake with the biggest one having 18 wolfs. Do the math, 18 times 52 works out to 936 deer a year just to survive and these packs are thriving. Plus there are two other packs but I don't know how many members are in those packs.

The wolfs are just destroying the deer heard up there and it's also the one place in Wisconsin where we have Elk. :shake:

 

[Little Wattsy]

From what I understand in order to survive wolfs need to kill one deer a week per adult wolf. I hunt between Clam Lake and Upson areas in Wisconsin.

This year talking to loggers and locals I found out that there are three different packs in the area surrounding Clam Lake with the biggest one having 18 wolfs. Do the math, 18 times 52 works out to 936 deer a year just to survive and these packs are thriving. Plus there are two other packs but I don't know how many members are in those packs.

The wolfs are just destroying the deer heard up there and it's also the one place in Wisconsin where we have Elk. :shake:

The wolfs are just destroying the deer heard up there and it's also the one place in Wisconsin where we have Elk.

you mean HAD elk......... :shake: :shake: :shake:

 

[tjohnson56]

Well we still have Elk but the calves have a higher mortality rate now that the wolf is in the area. From a flyer I read in Clam Lake there are about 145 Elk in the herd. The average age of the herd is getting older every year.

I can't remember if it was 20 or 40 million dollars that was spent to get the Elk started but its starting to look like a lot of money to feed the wolves.

Here's a quick story to let you know how smart our DNR is, as told to me by a man that lives in the area.

There is a small lake formed by a small dam on a creek, this man owns land on the lake and has plans to retire there. One day he sees a truck backed up and men unloading fish into the lake. He goes over to check it out, its the DNR stocking channel catfish, witch they seem to be doing all over the state.

The next year he sees the DNR doing a survey on the lake ( I don't know if it was netting or shocking ) and talks to the guys about only to find out there are very few catfish being found. Later on he sees the tank truck again goes over only to find out they are planting more catfish.

Next spring he sees the survey crew, yep almost no catfish. Later that spring he talks to a biologist at the lake and finds out that the problem is otter. In the winter catfish go almost dormant and just kind of lay on the bottom feeding very seldom and only if something comes very close. The lake being fairly shallow the otter just dive down to the bottom grab a catfish take it to the surface and eat it.

The next spring the tank truck shows up, he goes over and the DNR is planting more catfish. He says why do this when you know the otter are eating them every winter because the lake is to shallow?

The reason why? Its a five year study, so we the tax payer spend how much money to raise, plant, shock, and have a biologist come out there when all we are doing is feeding otters? The only good thing about this is we only have two more stocking to go.

And all the people involved get government bennies and pension. This to me is just like stealing.

 

[asabai]

Wolves and bears won't eat all our deer. Just remember we had wolves, bears, cougars and Indians in WI before settlement and it was a hunters' paradise with bison, moose, elk, caribou, and deer too. :bull: :bull: :bull: :bull:

You might try another shot at basic biology 101 and study that part about the cycle of predation: Predators (aside from man) WILL eat all the prey and when it is gone they will die off from starvation and desiese. When the predator numbers are down the prey will bread its self back into larger numbers anmd the cucle begins anew. I dont want to wait for good hunting 3 years out of 15 but YOU might decide to donate YOUR game to another preditor so YOU can stay home VS hunting.

[/quote]
I am not against controlling/hunting predator populations, I am for it. I am against eradication. To clarify the Indians also reduced predator populations.

 

[PitchyPine]

Very bad deer season this year here, the deer are in certain areas but not where they used to be. A bow hunter reported today on my MIL property of finding only one set of deer tracks and five sets of wolves. He also found a dead deer that he said was killed by wolves, this is on 240 acres. This property usually has lots of deer but no more
IMO the wolves are the problem, people are seeing lots of them everywhere. :shake:

 

[Bountyhunter]

How does a guy get on the list to get invited to shoot one of those bears?

I noticed this year that we have severely lower deer numbers. I hunted 2 days before I saw one deer. Then I saw why. We are talking Central Kansas here guys,,,,I came in one of my bottom fields and came around the corner of a row of big alfalfa bales and there the sucker was. All 175# of deer eating machine. These situations do not offer much of a window of opportunity, and I grabbed a .308 auto that was in the seat and snapped a shot at the big cat. I was sorely put out that I missed, the rifle not being mine and the scope was off. I found out later that it is a felony to kill a mountain lion in Kansas as the Fur and Feathers Nazis swear that they do not exist, but you are in deep doo doo if you kill one. How messed up is that?

Since I missed I can tell the story. Had I killed the beast as I had intended, I would not have mentioned it. It would have just been another SSS. (Shoot, shovel, shut-up)

Lenn, can a guy kill those wolves? Or, are they another SSS deal?

 

[PitchyPine]

Nope protected. :barf:

 

[PaulN/KS]

Not seeing a lot of deer in my area either,(NE Kansas). There are rumors of the big cats around us from ranchers and farmers. Haven't seen one or cut any sign,yet. There was one reported running around the People's Republik of Lawrence awhile back but that story sort of disappeared... :hmm:
Funny how you can be arrested for killing something that doesn't exist... :shake:

 

[10 gauge]

In the state of Washington or maybe its Oregon, it is illegal to shoot a "BIG FOOT". And that is a law that they have in their books :shake:

 

[ryoung14]

As many here often and loudly attest, "the old ways are better".

The old way with the wolf was annihilation. The oldtimers didn't see any need for the wolf and neither do I. Things went quite well without them for many decades. Now those who "know better" have brought them back and game is on the decline.

It's foolish to talk about "controlling" the wolf population. The wolf is far too smart to be "controlled". This control idea is the product of proud, arrogant minds. To "control" the wolf, you have to be smarter than the wolf is. In his own habitat, we'll be second best, if that.

Still have many fawns here in Central NY. Probably not for much longer. Wolves have been reported to the east, north of Rome and Utica I've heard

It's what we get for tossing aside the wisdom of the oldtimers and their old ways.

 

[rabjr]

I see this as another anti hunting measure, or at least the seeds of one taken by people using the moral high ground as an excuse to do it. Hunting takes the place of the predators that were eradicated in most areas and is needed to help keep populations in check and healthy. How better to work towards abolishing hunting than to put a stop to that excuse.

 

[Rocky Johnson]

People seem to forget why our forefathers shot and poisened the wolves off,for one thing they were afraid of them.
If they only eat one deer thats one to many.
Michigan DNR sayes that they eat 20,000 deer a year and cars kill 100,000 a year.We seen very few fawns in the western UP this year becouse of a bad winter.

 

[PitchyPine]

Another horror story, a local guy was out hunting recently and came across a bunch of deer tracks. He followed them to a creek where the tracks funneled over a beaver dam then over a hill. As he stood there he could hear a bunch of low groans and growling. Then it turned into a bunch of howeling, he left the area in fear.
These dern wolves are seen everywhere and imo will wipe out the deer if not stopped.
Sure cars kill more deer which is bad enough, do we need the wolves to add to that number. :shake:

 

[Little Wattsy]

As many here often and loudly attest, "the old ways are better".

The old way with the wolf was annihilation. The oldtimers didn't see any need for the wolf and neither do I. Things went quite well without them for many decades. Now those who "know better" have brought them back and game is on the decline.

It's foolish to talk about "controlling" the wolf population. The wolf is far too smart to be "controlled". This control idea is the product of proud, arrogant minds. To "control" the wolf, you have to be smarter than the wolf is. In his own habitat, we'll be second best, if that.

Still have many fawns here in Central NY. Probably not for much longer. Wolves have been reported to the east, north of Rome and Utica I've heard

It's what we get for tossing aside the wisdom of the oldtimers and their old ways.

Well stated IMHO.