vintage american large bore fowler

[Pukka Bundook]

Brit,
3 drams and an ounce and a quarter to ounce and a half will get the job done.
If you get a chance, read GT Garwoods books. you will find in there the loads that the East Coast market gunners were using in their 10 and 8 bores. Much lighter than some would think, And they were doing it for a living.

Brit,
Our posts crossed.
Where to start?
Ok, pressure. More pressure can be developed in a longer barrel Without (capital W) blowing the pattern, because as the charge goes up the spout, pressure drops. (simplified version)
In a shorter barrel, pressure can be kept down somewhat by using a larger grain of powder.
Yes, 3 F Will work, but I can just about guarantee the Patterns will not be as good as if you use 2 or 1F powder.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Brit,
3 drams and an ounce and a quarter to ounce and a half will get the job done.
If you get a chance, read GT Garwoods books. you will find in there the loads that the East Coast market gunners were using in their 10 and 8 bores. Much lighter than some would think, And they were doing it for a living.

Brit,
Our posts crossed.
Where to start?
Ok, pressure. More pressure can be developed in a longer barrel Without (capital W) blowing the pattern, because as the charge goes up the spout, pressure drops. (simplified version)
In a shorter barrel, pressure can be kept down somewhat by using a larger grain of powder.
Yes, 3 F Will work, but I can just about guarantee the Patterns will not be as good as if you use 2 or 1F powder.

Disagree buddy.
The faster powder pressure will peak sooner. The slower powder will still be rapidly expanding near the muzzle.
The velocity will be down and the user may have to put more in to compensate.
Patterns can be controlled much better than via powder type/size.
Oh, and I read no book to find this out. I just shoot my gun and find this stuff out!

I very much doubt one man's or several accounts from way back is exactly how everyone did it!
This is how come by these 'lores' that everyone adopts and anyone thinking outside their comfort zones is a loon ball!
This feller is in more peril traveling trying to find cannon fuel than using a judicious amount of 3f. I know this because there are car crash statistics that prove it so.
Now can someone please demonstrate to me an example of a fine powder alone causing a gun to destroy itself?

I have been using 4f in my guns of late and downing game just fine, check the stories.

Peace brothers!

B.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Brit,
One would think that you were the only person to conduct trials.
I will shake my head and say no more.

All the best,
Richard.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Brit,
One would think that you were the only person to conduct trials.
I will shake my head and say no more.

All the best,
Richard.

All the best to you too.

B.

 

[Feltwad]

Brit,
One would think that you were the only person to conduct trials.
I will shake my head and say no more.

All the best,
Richard.

Here Here It is best to walk away just lets hope Morb listens to those that know .
Feltwad

 

[Britsmoothy]

4f









Now if there is anyone prepared to publicly call me a liar here and now let's have it.
If not then I submit the above photos as evidence that the op does not need to travel looking for cannon powder at all.
Whilst some like to hide behind their keyboard ready to snipe at poeple who think differently than themselves from a distance probably because of something lacking in their lives I wish to make it clear that I have merely spoken in a frank and honest manner and not directed any disrespect to any individual here.

Like I said earlier, the moment a lore is broken in this game some are very quick to get their panties all twisted up!

B.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Brit,

One F was never known as cannon powder. Cannon powder was called cannon powder.
That you can shoot with 4F and not blow yourself up you have proved up to now.
To do so as a recommendation for others must be classified as irresponsible though.

I will watch your progress with great interest.
All the best,

Richard.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Brit,

One F was never known as cannon powder. Cannon powder was called cannon powder.
That you can shoot with 4F and not blow yourself up you have proved up to now.
To do so as a recommendation for others must be classified as irresponsible though.

I will watch your progress with great interest.
All the best,

Richard.

I apologize.
Using the term cannon powder was flippant.
I have not recommended anything, just questioned the old lores!

I don't know over your way but here loads of folk shoot their pistols and revolvers with fine bp or 4f. Pistols and revolvers tend to have thinner breach walls and or chamber walls, they don't blow up.

The op has a large bored gun coming with a substantial breach wall. It will stand a common sense charge of 3f.
He does not need to, born from fear induced comments made here panic buy 1f.

Most frequenters her advocate the benefits found from using the ' skychief' load of which I am one but I don't always load that way. One person here was encouraged to try it, he reluctantly did so he says but found it of no benefit.
Is he prepared to scoff the majority? No.
Does he scoff a minority? Yes, at every available opportunity!
This self acclaimed expert has reported to loading his muzzleloader shotguns with the same wad arrangements one would find in a conventional shotgun cartridge! Why would someone load a muzzle loading shotgun with the same cartridge fillers they use in cartridges?
I tell you why, it's because they know no better. Where did the native American Indian buy his nitro cards and wads from? Where did the early mountain men get their wads from and so on? The men exploring Canada? Did they keep popping back home for wads and nitro cards?
This is the trouble with experts, X, the unknown factor and pert.... well, I'll leave that one for yourselves to answer.

You Richard have been civil and polite and I hope you read between my lines enough to see that I wish no one any harm but honestly, I sometimes wonder why some bother using muzzleloaders, they make them sound so bloody dangerous!

Respectfully.

B.

B.

 

[Feltwad]

I think this thread is getting away from the original request it is now getting to personal it is time the moderator stepped in before it gets to bad
Feltwad

 

[Britsmoothy]

I think this thread is getting away from the original request it is now getting to personal it is time the moderator stepped in before it gets to bad
Feltwad

No, not at all my friend.

I'm still talking about powder granulation and am awaiting with excitement the arrival of this lovely original gun the op is getting

 

[morb]

i am getting more excited about the arrival of this piece each day. i will post better pics of it when it gets here. you guys have given me lots to think about and appreciate it keep it coming. great pics brit thanks for sharing
i'll be going into the "city" sometime in the next couple weeks and will pick up up some 1 or 2f.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Brit,

Thank you for your candid reply.
We may see some things differently, but also some things the same.
I for one always feel excited to tell folk what can be used for wadding. It's part of the joy of a smoothbore.
You may remember how I was told of ivy leaves by an old gunsmith back home (Yorkshire) when in my teens, and how well it works and no fear of setting harvest fields alight. Used such leaves or any tough leaves for ever it seems. (early '70's at any rate)
It's all magic stuff to me. I found moss from trees works V well and all kinds of things can be used.

That some use modern wads is of no import; It merely shows how versatile these guns are, and I would imagine those who like modern wads save a lot of time Not punching out wads like some of us do! It's just an economy measure.
Mr Starr used to punch wads from cardboard boxes, and won all kinds of clay shoots.
I can't fault him or his shooting. Cardboard is handier than say moss for very many of us.
I look forward to seeing Morb post on how his gun works, with all kinds of loads.

As a lad I used to do all sorts of painstaking patterning tests with my old worn out muzzleloaders. That was in V early '70's.
One day I want to start a thread on patterns, as I don't think we are doing as well these days.

All the best,
R.

 

[Skychief]

Looks as though Britsmoothy has quite the resume, AND, both eyebrows still intact!

Carry on

 

[Feltwad]

Morb
Hope your gun comes up to all your expectation that you want and you enjoy shooting it with a required load that suits the gun.Go safely and good luck
Feltwad

 

[Britsmoothy]

Brit,

Thank you for your candid reply.
We may see some things differently, but also some things the same.
I for one always feel excited to tell folk what can be used for wadding. It's part of the joy of a smoothbore.
You may remember how I was told of ivy leaves by an old gunsmith back home (Yorkshire) when in my teens, and how well it works and no fear of setting harvest fields alight. Used such leaves or any tough leaves for ever it seems. (early '70's at any rate)
It's all magic stuff to me. I found moss from trees works V well and all kinds of things can be used.

That some use modern wads is of no import; It merely shows how versatile these guns are, and I would imagine those who like modern wads save a lot of time Not punching out wads like some of us do! It's just an economy measure.
Mr Starr used to punch wads from cardboard boxes, and won all kinds of clay shoots.
I can't fault him or his shooting. Cardboard is handier than say moss for very many of us.
I look forward to seeing Morb post on how his gun works, with all kinds of loads.

As a lad I used to do all sorts of painstaking patterning tests with my old worn out muzzleloaders. That was in V early '70's.
One day I want to start a thread on patterns, as I don't think we are doing as well these days.

All the best,
R.

I do yes remember your leaves account.
In fact I remember ramming some green beech leaves in a rushed reload to dispatch a wounded squirrel about the same time as your notes.

B.

 

[morb]

Morb
Hope your gun comes up to all your expectation that you want and you enjoy shooting it with a required load that suits the gun.Go safely and good luck
Feltwad

thanks feltwad, i will do just that. with the resent postal just ending this week and the backlog of mail waiting to be delivered i'm not expecting it much before the end of december.

 

[eggwelder]

my Pattern 39 parts showed up today, i ordered them the day before the strike. there is hope for your delivery yet.

 

[morb]

my Pattern 39 parts showed up today, i ordered them the day before the strike. there is hope for your delivery yet.

that is good news. now with other unions blocking the mail truck from coming and going this could go on for a while yet but i'm still hoping to have for christmas

 

[morb]

well it finally showed up and i'm pretty tickled. it needs a bit of a clean up but it's in better shape than i thought it would be. not sure if the pics i took are any better than the ones i posted from the dealer website but here they are.

 

[Feltwad]

Glad your new purchase has arrived and you like it , although it needs a bit of restoration mostly in the lock region it does seem a useful gun . Load it with a sensible shotgun load according to the bore size and keep to shotgun powder . If you want to use shot for game it should shoot and swing well on grossing game or clays it should do the job enjoy it and good shooting
Feltwad