Virginia rifles

[Huntschool]

This is a new built Pre war Lancaster..... In my search over a year for details of VA rifles, I found that any attributed to that area had attributes of Lancaster guns of the period.

This is one of Clay Smith's guns interpretations, iron mounted:

I chose something in between since we dont really have any one gun to go by and even if we did a sample size of 1 does not a final statement make.

Mine (which is being finished as we speak) is walnut stocked with iron furniture in .62 smooth, Getz barrel from about 20 or more years ago, rifle. Just because we may never have seen one does not mean they were not there. They were tools of the trade and un like Timex watches the might not have kept on ticking... if ya know what I mean.

I hope the OP does well in his search for the VA Holy Grail.... I am going to enjoy mine.

 

[Magungo1066]

Thanks everyone!

 

[mushka]

I have an early Virginia rifle in .36 cal that TVM made for me. I honestly don't know what makes it an early Virginia. It is a really nice iron mounted rifle that shoot really well. I see all these side lock guns and they all look alike to me. A Pennsylvania, or southern, or early va. They all look alike to me. Some are just prettier than others. I don't feel bad no knowing, I just enjoy them all.

 

[Einsiedler]

I acquired this rifle from the late Glen Jones about 25 years ago. He sold it as one of his "Virginia" rifles. I say its more of an English rifle. But doesn’t really matter. Its like an old family member now and it has taken a few deer and hogs!

 

[Dale Lilly]

I acquired this rifle from the late Glen Jones about 25 years ago. He sold it as one of his "Virginia" rifles. I say its more of an English rifle. But doesn’t really matter. Its like an old family member now and it has taken a few deer and hogs!

View attachment 51797

Wow! That is a nice rifle. But more than that your picture is fabulous. It should be a cover for one of the ML magazines. Very tastefully arranged. Perfect composition. Polecat

 

[Art Caputo]

I have an early Virginia rifle in .36 cal that TVM made for me. I honestly don't know what makes it an early Virginia. It is a really nice iron mounted rifle that shoot really well. I see all these side lock guns and they all look alike to me. A Pennsylvania, or southern, or early va. They all look alike to me. Some are just prettier than others. I don't feel bad no knowing, I just enjoy them all.

I have one as well. It’s a great, looking 50 cal rifle that is nicely balanced, and very accurate.

 

[kje54]

This one I purchased not too long ago on ToTW, sold as a Virginia Longrifle.

 

[Stophel]

Everybody and their brother wants an "early Virginia" rifle..... and nobody knows what one really is.

Many guns are attributed to Virginia, simply because they don't "look like a Pennsylvania gun". Some of them may well be.

Seeing as how there were probably more known gunsmiths in Lancaster county, PA alone than in the whole colony of Virginia at any one time, I have to doubt that there were very many "early Virginia rifles" to begin with.

The Faber gun is often cited. There is another gun that is very obviously from the same shop (illustrated in "Accouterments V", page 62. Stocked in cherry, and signed "John Brackbill" (The book says it's signed on the barrel... apparently, it's actually signed on the sideplate. What the signature might have to do with the actual maker, I don't know). People WANT guns like this to have been made in Virginia... and they may well could have been (or Georgia... or New York...). These types of guns are what you would get if you had an English gunsmith trying to make a German rifle, which was unfamiliar to him (they rarely had any concept of what a cheekpiece is supposed to be...and their "cheekpieces" are just square lumps stuck on the side of the stock).

While searching for the photos of the "Faber" relative, I ran across photos of a gun signed "1776 G. Grace" on the lockplate. (Accouterments IV) And it's pretty much exactly what one would expect a 1776 Virginia rifle to be. The book says "Grace worked in Eastern Virginia", but I have no other information on him at all. At least his cheekpiece looks good.

Oh, and I have definitely never seen a Fondersmith rifle that looked anything like the Faber gun. That one has me puzzled.

 

[tnlonghunter]

This one I purchased not too long ago on ToTW, sold as a Virginia Longrifle.

View attachment 51818

I'm glad somebody bought that! I looked at that rifle nearly everyday for as long as it was on the site. I just couldn't scrape the cash together fast enough. I kinda wanted a shorter barrel, anyway, but otherwise it was exactly what I was looking for. How do you like it?

 

[tnlonghunter]

Everybody and their brother wants an "early Virginia" rifle..... and nobody knows what one really is.

That's the conclusion I came too recently. After lots of looking and hoping to find an original rifle "from Virginia" that ticked all my aesthetic and practical boxes, I basically found that what I want is a more contemporary interpretation, if you will. I basically wanted a Herschel House style rooted in a PA-type stock shape. Since I'm not re-enacting and don't have to satisfy any requirements for being Period Correct, there's no reason not to make what I want and simply try to make it look as consistent as possible with what might have come out of one of those (apparently) mythical Virginia gunsmith shops.

 

[rich pierce]

Stophel, I agree that without a signed rifle of early styling where the gunsmith is known to have been located in Virginia we are strictly in speculation in looking for a 1770s Virginia rifle. But to a large extent we are in the same boat looking for a 1750s to 1760s Pennsylvania rifle. your point about the concentration of gunsmiths in Pennsylvania is a very good one.

The shape of the buttstock and transition to the wrist on the Faber gun looks a lot like the only Valentine Fondersmith gun. But the carving on the tang of the Faber gun is of English shell styling. So, meh.

In Pennsylvania a huge number of rifles have been collected from locales where they were most likely made, architectural similarities noted, some signed guns found, and attributions made. As a example the so called “Wolfgang Haga” rifles may or may not have been made by him or in his shop but most everyone accepts they were made in Reading Pa. Then by lineage guns with early characteristics like RCA 21-23 are acceptably attributed to Reading PA. We don’t have piles of VA rifles that form a continuum and include some very early rifles, for the most part.
I find a few guns very good candidates for 1770s Virginia rifles but they sure do not comprise a “type”.

 

[kje54]

I'm glad somebody bought that! I looked at that rifle nearly everyday for as long as it was on the site. I just couldn't scrape the cash together fast enough. I kinda wanted a shorter barrel, anyway, but otherwise it was exactly what I was looking for. How do you like it?

I was watching it for a time also before I pulled the trigger so to speak. There was another one that I wanted more and waited too long, someone else bought it so I went with this one. I love it, a little nose heavy for this old man but unfortunately I haven't found the time to shoot it, just way too busy with too many other things right now.

 

[Stophel]

I think guns like the "Faber" gun, and the one shown earlier in this thread are as good a guess as anything for a 1760's Virginia gun. But there still doesn't seem to be anything concrete about it. Lots of speculation (like the "Augusta county/John Hannah" attribution), but that's really all it is.

 

[Snapshot in Norway]

My good friend Helge, made me a nice rifle based on George Shumway’s Rifles of Colonial America.
The RCA 123 Klette rifle to be precise.. I did make a YouTube video on it a while back: