Voyageur smokepole

[Damascus]

Although I have a kentucky flintlock rifle, that I manage to talk my way into darn near every time period and persona, I am wondering about the french/canadian Voyageur.

I have cast aside the goofy stories of the 'canoe gun,' pondered the posibility of the tulle, and wonder now if a voyageur would have been likely to even own a smokepole at all, considering the job and the conditions.

Anyone have any knowledge to share on this one?



Cornfused,

Damascus

 

Karl Kosner has done a great deal of research on this topic, including surveys of manifests and invoices. Not much shooting hardware in the hands of the voyuagers.

There have been several discussions on the

www.historicaltrekking.com

site on this subject. In addition, there are a good number of long term Great Lakes reenactors on that site.

You might also try back issues of On The Trail magazine for additional info on your region.

Generally, the boatmen were too busy portaging canoes and pieces to worry about carrying guns. Not that much need for guns with their climate of nonhostility toward the NA. One cannot make a profit trading with dead men!

They were not hunters nor were they woodsmen fighters, but specialists in transporting goods by water. They were known as "pork eaters" for a reason!

Don't think I wish to reenact a group whose leading cause of death was strangulated hernias!

:hatsoff:

 

[Tommy Bruce]

Ghost is right on the money on this one, Karl is definatly the man when it comes to info on Canadien Voyageurs. Their's was certainly a hard life. I believe in one of Karl's articles in ON THE TRAIL he makes mention of Voyageurs being unarmed for the most part. Another persona you may look at might be the Courier Duboise (spelling?). These men served in the New France militia, often lived among the natives, made a meager existance hunting, and would have probably carried a fusil de chasse. Some of these guns were made at the Tulle arsenal, others at St. eiteinnes, ect. TG and Okwaho should chime in at this point. COLONIAL GUNS ON THE FRONTIER is a good book for describing these firearms. Sounds like your on the right track by researching your persona before buying a gun. Good luck.

 

Yeah, Ghost is right (as always) and Tommy, too. Courier du Bois is the word you're looking for, "runner of the woods". Those were the sort of Free Trappers (some considered outlaws in many ways)in the early days of the French trade.

Voyaguers weren't trappers, they were canoemen well into the 19th century. They were the "engages" on the Lewis and Clark expedition. There were guns in the boat, but mainly for hunting as, yes, the non-aggressive manner of trade.

A great bunch of books on the subject around the lakes here is Peter Newman's books on the HBC and NWC, Company of Adventurers and "Ceasars of the Wilderness", both available on Amazon. If you want to know about the Great Lakes fur trade, there's a FANTASTIC source.

Lot of Dutch guns in this area, too. Something to consider.

PS: There were short barreled trade guns, but they seem to have come around the 1790's from what I have read when the fur companies who traded in them said that the "indians prefer a shorter barrel"...of course, that meant around 30" as opposed to 42". As the NWTG made its way west, they seem to have wanted the shorter barrel for ease of use and loading on horseback. I'll look up the reference, but I read of a buffalo hunt in the 1830's where the writer describes seeing the whites and Indians loading their "fuzees" on horseback by spitting the ball down the barrel and then ramming the but into the saddle pommel or their legs to "seat" it...any questions why stories persist of Indian trade guns exploding, folks? Perhaps because when you don't seat a ball, your gun becomes a pipe-bomb!!!

 

[tg]

I would just say that if they carried guns they would ne of the typical type of the period, and add that so often we hear of one wanting or refering to a "Tulle" and this is not a particular type or even style or shape of gun but a town that was in of itself an armory, guns nearly identical to the guns made at Tulle were also made elsewhere.

 

[Okwaho]

I really can't add much to what has been said.Voyageurs were as said here engages or hired paddlers of the big freight canoes.Karl Kostner has pointed out, and correctly so, that the voyageurs didn't carry guns on these trips to the Pays d'en Haut or high country. One group of canoes would have a few guns owned by the trading company and kept by those in charge of the journey.There was little need for guns other than for hunting and they would have been either Fusils de chasse or Fusils fin de chasse{plain or fine guns for hunting}.Coureurs de bois were as, pointed out, little more than outlaws unless licensed who were self employed trappers and spent much of their time living with the Indians including marrying Indian women and becoming part of Indian culture. If you are interested in this period a recent book gives a very good overview of this part of Canadian history.The title is "ADVENTURERS IN THE NEW WORLD The Saga of the Coureurs de Bois" by Georges-Hebert Germain. It sells for $39.95 plus postage and it can be ordered from The Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Nebraska, 1-308-432-3843 or [email protected] recommend it very highly.

The short barreled guns referred to by Stumblin Buffler are the later Northwest guns which were offered by English merchants after the surrender of Canada by the French.They ranged in barrel length from 30" to 44" or more with the longer barrel lengths bringing the higher prices.There is absolutely NO truth in the myth that the price paid by Indians was pelts piled as high as the guns were long.As I said the price varied according to barrel length.I also call your attention to the post by TG wherein he stated that the term Tulle was the name of a manufacturer of guns NOT a type of gun.Tulle also did NOT manufacture trade guns for the Indians except for a very small number of guns mostly Fusils fin de chasse intended as gifts for selected Indian[url] Chiefs.Trade[/url] guns were manufactured by St. Etienne,Maubege,Charleville,various French gunsmiths, and a large number were made in Liege.
Tom Patton :m2c:

 

[va2dc]

Hi everyone,

The exact term is "courreurs des bois" and as it been said it translate to "runner of the wood".

Denis

 

[Damascus]

Thank you everyone for the information.

I had meant to say "fusil" not "tulle" but I suppose I can already taste the leather of my moccasins so backpedaling won't get me back up the river heheh.

I am very interested in the "runner of the woods" persona and will be researching it. Thanks for the great book reference as well, guess Ill have to start saving my pennies.

I am a part of the FCF, an service auxillary of the Royal Rangers, a Christian scouting program for the Assemblies of God church. The program is worldwide, and the USA is divided into "territories" which usually consist of about 4 states. Each territory is given a focus for the outfits and persona that we are to develop, with the Great Lakes territory being selected as "Voyageurs." The couple of persona I have already developed are of a scottsman in the Great Lakes area in the French and Indian war era, one with a few western trappings from exploration and one more authentic to the eastern F&I era. I do, however, have a Kentucky Rifle, which certainly makes for a good deal of explanation and heated debate. I wanted to go more voyageur like the majority of our local chapter, but if I do, I see that I will be leaving the rifle in the case. The "courreurs des bois" should be in the voyageur "family" of persona and give me an excuse to finally get that smoothbore I've been eyeing.



Thanks again for the ideas.


Damascus

 

Here's a link to a the Northwest Journal, a well documented site run by a Canadian group - it includes a section on arms carried in the old Northwest
http://www.northwestjournal.ca/