wads/patches and cards

[jproveaux]

Hello i got a ? For yall how does wads/patches and cards aid in the gun's performance? ?? And which one do u preferto and why....thanks

 

[Wes/Tex]

The quickest explanation is to say they separate the components of the load, the over powder card and wad cushion the shot from the powder explosion and help prevent the gas pressure from blowing apart the shot column. The over shot card basically keeps the shot in place and not rolling out the bore...a bit over-simplistic, but it's about what it does. Now, it's necessary to say that they're not the last word. Several of us, especially us old farts, have found a couple wads of tow work just as well, and are historically accurate. Some use all cards and do away with the fiber wads saying they blow the shot column apart, though to be honest, I've never found this to happen. I've switched to tow for no better reasons than they work and I hate schlepping a lot of stuff around.

Patches can help lube around the ball and take up the gap between ball diameter and bore diameter. some prefer them some don't. I've seen two guns by the same maker that did their best with totally different load set ups. In that case, one gun did it's best with a patched ball and no cards, the other preferred a bare ball on top of a lubed fiber wad and held in place with an over shot card...why? No idea! When you get your gun, try different variations till teh gun's happy! You'll be too! :wink:

 

[coloradoclyde]

What I use and why I use it depends on a lot of factors.
One day I found a dollar bill laying in the weeds, it was quite weathered so I used it for musket wadding :haha:
Oh! and it didn't work very well! :grin:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Try clover! Big wads make it pretty!! :wink: :rotf:

 

[coloradoclyde]

What kind ? red, white, 4 leaf?
Red clover blossoms would probably work well.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Good ole white blossoms & green leaf Texas clover! Managed to cover the Lt. Governor with it and got a "Meritorious Service" certificate from the Texas Army for my efforts! :rotf:

 

[tenngun]

Was at a blanket shoot, I was the only one with a smoothy and I left my wadding back in camp. I just pulled up hunks of grass off the ground and loaded away. I finished in the middle of the field. 5 guys (well 4 guys and one girl) outshot me 8 guys didnt do as well. Smooties eat what you feed them.

 

[Col. Batguano]

What I use and why I use it depends on a lot of factors.
One day I found a dollar bill laying in the weeds, it was quite weathered so I used it for musket wadding :haha:
Oh! and it didn't work very well! :grin:

Buckshot? :grin:

 

[coloradoclyde]

:rotf: Good one! :thumbsup:
:hatsoff: :rotf:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Smooties eat what you feed them.

And that is their real beauty. :grin:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Hello i got a ? For yall how does wads/patches and cards aid in the gun's performance? ?? And which one do u preferto and why....thanks

Wads can cushion a shot load for a better pattern and with a bit of wax or grease lube keep the fowling pliable.

Patches (lubed) hold a round ball in the barrel snugly for better accuracy (no need for wads or cards with a patch).

Cards:
Over powder keeps the lube off the powder if you use a lubed wad and adds to the cushioning either war.

Over shot keeps the pellets from running out the bore if you tip the barrel down. Pole a hole or slice it so the air can escape. It's common to set a air-tight 1/16" card and have it "pop" off the shot after you pull the rammer up from the compressed air behind it.

 

[eaglesnester]

When I can find it I use wasp nest as a over powder wad and as a wad over my PRB. Seems to work ok. I understand back in the day this was SOP in a lot of places in a musket. I have ordered a 20MM arch punch from Buettrans Village in Main to cut wads from 1/8th Durofelt sheet to use in my 75 bess. will have to try out both the wasp nest paper and the Durofelt wads and see how they work with a 75 cal, 735RB and .010 cotton patch.

 

[Billnpatti]

I use a DuroFelt wad that I lube with Bore Butter on top of my powder charge. I patch my ball with 100% cotton drill that mics at .015. I lube it with Bore Butter, too. I shot this load over a chronograph and found that using the DuroFelt wad improved my MV resulting better accuracy from my .58 cal smoothie.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Historically smoothbores where shot with wads. There is little evidence of PRB.

I cannot speak to smooth rifles as my focus lies with trade guns and fowlers.

About any material you can think of is mentioned; from tow, animal hair, grass, cloth strips, wasp nests, leather and punched felt etc.

Many people still use these today.

I find a ½” cushion wad dipped in B-Butter under the patch ball improves my group.

From the Native trade gun perspective, the Hudson’s Bay Company considered a ball to be of proper size if it was from 1/64th to 1/16th inch under bore size. That would be .525” to .475” in my 54 cal. smoothie. :hmm:

With such a variation a power/wad/ball/wad load is the easiest solution.

 

[Stumpkiller]

What about round balls with paper cartridges. ;-)

Many men on militia rosters would have those.

And that's what I deer hunt with.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Spence,

Please forgive my blindside when it comes to cartridges. You and others have proved many times that cartridges are a viable way to load and shoot. They certainly are historically correct, especially among military and militia groups. Indeed several of my reenacting friends use them because they are convenient.

Surprisingly I have never seen them as native trade items nor have I seen paper earmarked for use in cartridges. Given the trading post willingness to provide their customers with any saleable item there probably was not much of a market for them or perhaps they were too fragile for the trade.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Didn't the militia own their own firearms?
Would the cartridges have been issued or did each member roll their own?

 

[Stumpkiller]

Spence? I'm honored! I'm Stumpy!

Which militia? Local units were expected to provide their own arms and also muster with 60 rounds (I forget how many were expected to be pre-rolled cartridges but it was not all 60 - this is why we need Spence).

Some militia was supplied by state or commonwealth, and earlier (preRevolution) a commission was purchased by the unit's commanding officer - Colonel level or higher - and he supplied the arms.

As I understand it a typical military soldier might fire five rounds in practice per YEAR if the commanding officer was supplying munitions.

And, of course, we all know the story of Rev. Caldwell

Revolutionary War Battle of Springfield, June 23, 1780, when Reverend James Caldwell, Pastor & Chaplain of of the American Regiment of Colonel Elias Dayton, passed out the Isaac Watts Hymnals from the Presbyterian Church for use as Musket wadding. His cry of "Give Them Watts, Boys", has lived on to become the maxim of that battle.

But that's paper wadding vs. pre-roller cartridges.

Hey - I found it. 24 cartridges.

Posted by David Hardy · 22 June 2005 05:02 PM

RKV suggested a reference to the original militia statute adopted by the First Congress might be interesting, with regard to showing what "militia" meant to the framing generation. Here's the Militia Act of 1792, and the Calling Forth Act. The former's relevant portion is:

"An ACT more effectually to provide for the National Defence, by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States.

I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside....

That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of power and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and power-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a power of power; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes."

The Act remained on the books until 1903, when the **** Act replaced it with the language now found in 10 U.S. Code sec. 311:

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2005/06/militia_act_of.php

 

[Grandpa Ron]

In reply to the original question; “how does wads/patches and cards aid in the gun's performance?” The use of the power, “nitro” card wad, cushion wad, shot, and over shot card combination was developed to provide a smooth shot pattern for fine English and other European Gentlemen.

The gun companies spent a lot of time and effort perfecting the proper load for their shotguns and the proper tools and loading instructions were provided with the gun case. This persisted into the cartridge era as well.

Wadding had long been recognized as necessary to seal the bore and reduce gas blow by thus improving the shot pattern. Most people had little time or money to waste optimizing their load pattern and got along fine with the about any gop of wadding material. For round ball you just replaced the shot with a ball and let the wadding cradle the ball out the barrel. Paper cartridges were particularly handy, as the wadding and ball could be loaded in one effort.

Patching the ball in a smoothbore, with or without wadding seems to be a modern technique and many believe it adds to the accuracy of the ball. I find it is easier to load a PRB because you do not have to follow up with a top wad.

 

[Billnpatti]

The OP wad serves two purposes. First, it acts as a seal to seal in the gasses from the burning black powder. Secondly, it acts as a cushion for the shot as it is being suddenly accelerated out of the bore. The OS card simply holds the shot in the bore to keep it from falling out. Some people like to use one and others prefer two.

Historically, many different things have been used for both the OP and the OS wads. Today, you do not have to rely on things gathered from nature such as wasp nest, grass, etc. There are many excellent modern OP wads and OS cards available from muzzleloading supply companies. I don't think one OS card is much better than another. If they fit snuggly, they all seem to work fine. The OP wads are another thing. Not so much their construction, it just seems that some shotguns like a whole OP wad while others seem to prefer a half thickness of OP wad. Not a problem, though because the fiber OP wads can be easily split in half using only your thumbnail. You just have to do some patterning to see what your shotgun prefers.

If you find that your pattern is not as tight as you would like, the pattern can be tightened by using home made paper shot cups. If you want to know how to do that, just send me a PM and I will give you the instructions on how to make a paper shot cup.