Walker owners

[Rikeman]

I ditched the paper cartridges for now and I am back to just loose powder in the cylinders. I was getting great results at 25 yrds this last Sunday.

I am using Pyrodex (I know I know :shake: but it is what I have right now) With a 45 grain by volume load I was hitting about 6" high but was able to compensate no problem. I decided to try and reduce my load. I went with 30 grains by volume and put a pre lubed felt wad over that and rammed the ball to the bottom of the loading lever travel. I got excellent results! At 25 yards, point of impact was point of aim! Got quite a few bulls!

My question is when ramming the ball with the revolver loader, I did not feel much resistance. The ball was fairly deep, but I am worried that I am not getting enough compression on the powder. Even worse is it possible there is a gap?! At 25 yards it is a fun and fast load to use, especially if I am getting great accuracy. Should I use a filler to get the ball closer to the top of the cylinder.

Everything went fine at the range, but any thoughts would be welcome.

 

[mazo kid]

I don't have a Walker, so can't do this myself: I would mark the rammer at it's lowest point in the cylinder. Then measure the depth of the cylinder, add the diameter of you ball to the distance the rammer goes in and subtract from the cylinder depth. The difference should be the volume of powder needed to just contact the ball. Add 5-10 grains or whatever you decide your load to be and you won't be leaving any air space. You can do all the above "measuring" by using a dowel and making your marks on it. You really don't need a lot of compression; just be consistent.

 

[Bob Riegl]

:hmm: Primarily what size ball does your gun call for and what size ball are you feeding it? So check what the manufacturer recommends for ball dia.and comply if you care to. That will define how much shaving and resistance you will feel when loading. As for the "gap" (outside of pyrodex), between top of load and the jump distance---I simply use whatever powder 3fg Swiss, or Goex etc. the ball and the lubricated felt wads I would use nothing else. I am not a believer in oatmeal, cornmeal, crisco (yuck). As you can see the accuracy is there---what more are you looking for, a Hammerli free Pistol??? Your not going to get a machine rest 5 shots in the size of 10 penny nail head at 50 metres.This is a BP repro of the Colt Walker---so your 25 yard targets are supremo and be glad of it, now go and enjoy the gun. The old adage about a sow's ear and a silk purse applies here as well. :thumbsup:

 

[Rikeman]

:hmm: Primarily what size ball does your gun call for and what size ball are you feeding it? So check what the manufacturer recommends for ball dia.and comply if you care to. That will define how much shaving and resistance you will feel when loading. As for the "gap" (outside of pyrodex), between top of load and the jump distance---I simply use whatever powder 3fg Swiss, or Goex etc. the ball and the lubricated felt wads I would use nothing else. I am not a believer in oatmeal, cornmeal, crisco (yuck). As you can see the accuracy is there---what more are you looking for, a Hammerli free Pistol??? Your not going to get a machine rest 5 shots in the size of 10 penny nail head at 50 metres.This is a BP repro of the Colt Walker---so your 25 yard targets are supremo and be glad of it, now go and enjoy the gun. The old adage about a sow's ear and a silk purse applies here as well. :thumbsup:

I am not looking for anything MORE from my gun and was very happy with the performance. The walker has cutting rings deeper in the cylinders that shave the side of the ball when loaded. I use a .454 round ball. That is not my issue, and I may not have an issue at all! When I load my rifles or even 45 grains in my Walker I can feel the resistance from the powder as I compact it in the gun. With the 30 grains, I know I am not getting that same "Compaction" because my loading lever runs out of travel before I feel much resistance. So my question was more along the lines of input on wether less compacted powder could cause a problem in my gun.

If I use the method that Mazo suggested and find that there are no air gaps in the cylinder between ball and powder and the tight compaction is of no issue......heck I am a happy camper and need not make any adjustments! :thumbsup:

 

[Rikeman]

I don't have a Walker, so can't do this myself: I would mark the rammer at it's lowest point in the cylinder. Then measure the depth of the cylinder, add the diameter of you ball to the distance the rammer goes in and subtract from the cylinder depth. The difference should be the volume of powder needed to just contact the ball. Add 5-10 grains or whatever you decide your load to be and you won't be leaving any air space. You can do all the above "measuring" by using a dowel and making your marks on it. You really don't need a lot of compression; just be consistent.

I will do that tonight. I am not sure if it is still anissue with only a 30 grain charge, but I heard that you could cause damage to your gun if there is a gap between ball and powder.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Hey Rikeman!

Glad that you're having so much fun with the Walker! I always use 50 grains of 3Fg Goex in mine, with a wonder-wad on top of the powder, then a .454 Hornady ball. I use a loading stand to keep the barrel vertical and I can lean into the loading lever some to fully seat the ball & wad upon the charge. I've never experimented with smaller charges (due to the ball jumping) or any type of cereal. I just aim 6.5 inches low at 25 yards and I hit the 10-X ring .

Uniform charges with the SAME amount of compression on the seating of the balls is where accuracy starts! Remember that you're making your own "cartridge" every time that you seat a ball upon a charge! Black powder likes compression! BPCR .45-70 handloads often have one or more wonder-wads...black powder performs better when uniformly compressed. Shot to shot accuracy with these rifles has been written about at ranges out to 1,000 yards! :wink:

I might have to try the 30 grain loading IF I'm shooting the Walker at a novelty shoot with tiny-sized targets :hmm: . Other than that, I like the BOOOM! I get from the 50 grain service charge. One time I even beat all of the single-shots with the Walker, scoring a 95x100-3X :shocked2:

Have a blast with yours!

Dave

 

[Rikeman]

Hey smokin,

It was a lot of fun at the range. I was able to put quite a few rounds through the walker on Sunday.

The range I am currently shooting at is limited in how it is set up. I can only shoot my Walker at either 25 yards or 100 yards. Nothing in between until they get the 50 yard range repaired. They have pre set target stands and you cant place your own targets at various distances.

So the reduced load is fun for now at the 25 yards and is quite accurate. I think I might play with filler to get good compaction.

I do admit though that a full charge is a lot of fun to shoot! Shooting a walker is addictive!!!!!!!!!

 

[mukluk]

Give 100 yards a try with the Walker, it may just suprise you. I gave mine a whirl not long ago on a standard silhouette at 100, managed 15 hits out of 18 shots :thumbsup:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

At the risk of patting myself on the back: One of the Clubs that my Son and I belong to is a Black Powder ONLY group of Re-enactors. They have lots of different types of novelty shoots at various distances. Last February I hit a torso-sized gong at 135 yards with the Walker and the 50 grain charge, strong hand only! Turned quite a few heads and became the pistol chairman later that year :rotf: . You'd be surprised at 100 yards...just remember to let the hammer fall onto the caps without lowering the revolver in anticipation of the BOOOOOOOOOM! :shocked2: :haha:

Dave

 

[Rikeman]

I actually did do some shooting at 100 yards a few weeks ago and was surprised at how well I did! No doubt about it, the Walker is an amazing revolver! Plus if you like attention, everyone loves to see it shot! :thumbsup:

 

[Doc Arroyo]

My question is when ramming the ball with the revolver loader, I did not feel much resistance. The ball was fairly deep, but I am worried that I am not getting enough compression on the powder. Even worse is it possible there is a gap?! At 25 yards it is a fun and fast load to use, especially if I am getting great accuracy. Should I use a filler to get the ball closer to the top of the cylinder.

I have not reduced loads in my Walker to this level, but have a few friends that belong to the "no recoil in SASS" club. one shoots extremely light loads in his Ruger Old Army. When I asked him how he did it, he reached into his pocket and pulled out a piece of brass that was the size and shape of a .38 wadcutter. After ramming the balls in the cylinder, this "rammer extender" was drop on the ball, and the ball was rammed a second time. with this small added step to his loading process he felt the crunch of the powder, and felt alot more confident that he got it seated properly.

 

[Rebel]

I did pretty much the same thing to shoot light loads in my Remmy, only i used a piece of wood dowel. The brass what sure hold up better though. :thumbsup:

 

[Rikeman]

Good idea......that would be easier than adding fillers. I still love shooting 50 grains of powder, just seems overkill at 25 yards though. Plus there is the added advantage that point of aim is point of impact at 25 yards with 30 grains.

I still get a bit of recoil with 30 grains of pyrodex, but 50 is a lot more fun :grin:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Hey Doc,

I'm not much into the "NO RECOIL" club either for competition! I consider it worse than "gaming" in other action shooting leagues!

Bottom line is why use a revolver that will hold 50 grains of powder IF all you're going to shoot is about half that? My 1860 Army Colt with 20-25 grains in that tiny cylinder is O-K by me!

Now for a close-up novelty shoot, that's a different story, especially if that's the only revolver that you brought. :haha:

Dave

 

[Doc Arroyo]

Hey Doc,

I'm not much into the "NO RECOIL" club either for competition! I consider it worse than "gaming" in other action shooting leagues!

Bottom line is why use a revolver that will hold 50 grains of powder IF all you're going to shoot is about half that? My 1860 Army Colt with 20-25 grains in that tiny cylinder is O-K by me!

Now for a close-up novelty shoot, that's a different story, especially if that's the only revolver that you brought. :haha:

Dave

I wasn't preaching that anyone should, just passing along a tip on how to download the gun safely. Part of my deal is there are too many ways to enjoy the shooting sports. So run what ya brung....
:thumbsup:

 

[mykeal]

The idea is to hit what you are aiming at; accuracy is the issue.

Why use less than what the chamber will hold? Because in every one of my 14 cap & ball revolvers the most accurate load is less than the max load. Without exception, every single one.

Bottom line is why use a revolver that will hold 50 grains of powder IF all you're going to shoot is about half that?

Well, half max is overstating it a bit, but you size the load based on what's most accurate for the gun; you don't choose the gun in order to be able to shoot the max load. And you don't shoot max load unless you don't care about being as accurate as possible.

I don't say it's wrong to shoot max load; I do it myself once in a while. But you asked why shoot less, so I gave my reason.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

mykeal,

In general, we both agree :thumbsup: . I only said what I did to illustrate that one can pick a revolver that weighs half as much as the Walker if one is interested in shooting a reduced load...I just didn't "type it right" :redface: .

At 50 grains, my Walker shoots fantastic! To me, that load is approx. a 20% reduction of the max load. Just enough of a reduction to give me the accuracy to hit the 135 yard gong, and enough UMMMMPH to get the ball there with almost a flat trajectory, as aiming with the stock sights zero'd in at 75-100 yards.

I think that whatever the revolver in use, the charge can be "tuned" to obtain a desired result, such as Rikeman stated in his post :applause: . I even said that I might experiment with his recommendation . I too like to do novelty-style shoots and make heads turn!

I'm sorry to have typed only half of what I was trying to say :redface: , but like you said, 30 grains is an extreme example of a reduced load. :haha: I just don't have the time or patience to start using a dowel to push the ball down into the cylinder far enough :shake: .

Dave

 

[curator]

I have had a Dixie Walker for about 25 years. It is most accurate with 40 grains of real FFFgm (Goex) and about 20 grains measure of cream of wheat filler. This puts the ball almost flush with the cylinder face when powder/filler column is properly compressed. I put homemade (50/50 bee's wax/lard)lube over each ball. This works to keep the fouling soft around the cylinder pin. I have shot this load over my Chrony to find velocity right around 1050 fps---nearly identical to 55-60 grain loads without filler. The cream of wheat compresses behind the ball, seals off gas that might leak past the ball in the deeply rifled barrel, and scrubs out lead/powder fouling from the previous shot. I suspect that the extra weight and friction from the filler increases chamber pressure to give more complete/cleaner burning of the charge. Seating the ball to jump the absolute least from chamber to barrel forcing cone reduces strain on the barrel wedge and contributes to accuracy. I use .458 balls cast of pure lead with about 1/2% tin to aid in mould fillout. Years ago, I reamed the chambers to .453 as they came from Dixie at .447. The groove diameter of my barrel is .452. This simple step made a HUGE difference in accuracy, velocity, and cleaner burning. Using sandbags from the bench, this gun will shoot 6-shot groups that a silver dollar will cover if care is taken with loading.

I have tried wonderwads, and just about every possible powder charge combination. This one works. Every handgun is a rule onto itself, so YMMV.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Thank-you for your reply!

Someone with your depth of knowledge and experience shouldn't be such a stranger to this Forum! Only 8 posts in 3 years? I'd love to read more of what your experiences have taught you!

Although I'm not a fan of using cereal, I can respect that tight group you spoke of! Any photos of that target available? I'd love to pass them along to friends that think that C&B revolvers can't hit the broad side of a barn! :haha:

Dave

 

[wwfeatherston]

I have just got a Uberti Walker. I can also confirm that it seems to shoot best at about 50 grains.Three rounds into two inches at 25 meters- thats as good as I can shoot anything I own!

I found 60 a tight fit and had to lean on the lever, so I think I will stick to 50 grains.

It certainly produces a satisfactory cloud of smoke. along with the flame and roar!