Walkers wild

[Markham]

Hello! Nice write-up.

While I'm not new to modern firearms, (long time member of AR15.com, and several other websites) I'm a complete newbie when it comes to black powder shooting.

Back in December I scratched a long time itch and bought a Uberti Walker, it was on sale for a nice price. I'd heard about the short arbor issue with these guns through various articles and YouTube. So I was surprised to find that mine was absolutely perfect.

Has Uberti made adjustments to their manufacturing, and corrected the short arbor issue or is there manufacturing process just that random? I also appear to have lucked up with the loading lever drop issue as well. At least so far.... I have about 200 rounds through the gun using some heavy loads (range 45-55 grains), the gun is still tight as a drum.

 

[Eras Gone]

The more recent Ubertis I have bought have no arbor issues or so little as to not be a problem. Maybe I have just been fortunate. As seen in the earlier posts, it can be corrected easily.

 

[oldwolf]

I have read that the Walker sights where designed to be spot-on at long range, like 50 or 75 yards and that is why they shoot high at short range.
Wish I could find that article again. Might be BS.

 

[Zonie]

Just for giggles, I looked up the velocity Lyman says they got with a repro Colt Walker shooting a 40 grain powder load.
The book says it was 950 fps muzzle velocity with GOEX 3Fg powder.

Poking 950 fps into my Roundball Trajectory program and setting the aim point at 75 yards it said the ball would be hitting 3.5 inches above the point of aim at 35 yards. The highest point in the balls flight would be 3.6 inches at 40 yards.

Increasing the aiming distance to 100 yards, the highest point in the balls flight was 7.4 inches above the line of sight at 50 yards distance.

If the gun was sighted at 100 yards, the ball will be hitting 4.9 inches above the point of aim at 25 yards.

I think most people are shooting at a distance of 25 yards when they are doing some target shooting with their Walkers so if the balls are hitting about 5 inches high, the old, "Sighted in for 100 yards" idea might have some merit.

My Walker (sold by CVA back a long time ago) hits dead on at 25 yards. In fact, it is about the only cap & ball revolver I own that shoots to the point of aim at that distance. All of the rest of them hit 4 to 8 inches high at 25 yards.

Just goes to show, all of these reproduction revolvers are different.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Hello! Nice write-up.

While I'm not new to modern firearms, (long time member of AR15.com, and several other websites) I'm a complete newbie when it comes to black powder shooting.

Back in December I scratched a long time itch and bought a Uberti Walker, it was on sale for a nice price. I'd heard about the short arbor issue with these guns through various articles and YouTube. So I was surprised to find that mine was absolutely perfect.

Has Uberti made adjustments to their manufacturing, and corrected the short arbor issue or is there manufacturing process just that random? I also appear to have lucked up with the loading lever drop issue as well. At least so far.... I have about 200 rounds through the gun using some heavy loads (range 45-55 grains), the gun is still tight as a drum.

Interesting, my Walker was purchased in July of 2018. My ram lever was fairly loose, and the spring catch was loose in the dovetail. I replaced it, it wasn’t expensive, that tightened the lever considerably.
Glad yours was good out of the box!

 

[glwilso8]

according to what i've read they were designed to knock a horse down at 100 yrds. recent investigation suggests on at 75. shoots like my blackhawk did when i owned it. looking past the pointing finger.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Have you shot it yet as it was intended to be loaded?

 

[bang]

Yeah, powder first then ball.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Yeah, powder first then ball.

Sorry, I meant with a full load, max load.

 

[bang]

Sorry, I meant with a full load, max load.

Personally I'm not very trusting of open top reproductions with max loads. Over my 45 years of shooting BP I've seen and heard about people shooting max loads only to have so much base pin stretching that the wedge no longer does a proper job or base pin breaks. I fired 2 shots with about 50 grains and already had to add an 0.020 spring steel shim to the back of the wedge to render proper fit. Have to remember the do not manufacture reproductions with actual gun quality metals. I'm consisering changing the base pin. I believe that new Uberti base pin is of better quality. I need to find out if an Uberti will fit properly on an ASM. I know there is a very slight smaller cylinder diameter but from what I have read it's not enough to be of concern. It's a matter if when installed it clocks correctly at correct length. If all else fails I may be forced to make one. Not an easy task but doable.

 

[Markham]

Interesting, my Walker was purchased in July of 2018. My ram lever was fairly loose, and the spring catch was loose in the dovetail. I replaced it, it wasn’t expensive, that tightened the lever considerably.
Glad yours was good out of the box!

Sorry to hear about the dovetail on your catch spring being loose on the barrel. I hadn't read about that being an issue with Walkers. Mine is firmly attached to the barrel, I'd need a hammer to remove it. All I've read about is the dropping loading lever issue.

Which as we all know, is a design flaw that was reported even on the originals, and corrected on Colt's later designs. Interestingly enough, I just read an article where someone reported the dovetail on the Dragoons loading lever latch coming loose from the barrel, but I hadn't read that happening with the Walkers.

I'm just glad my loading lever has remained snug while firing. But those reading this need keep in mind, I've only had it since December, so it might loosen and begin to drop in time. I guess I'll find out.

 

[Markham]

Personally I'm not very trusting of open top reproductions with max loads. Over my 45 years of shooting BP I've seen and heard about people shooting max loads only to have so much base pin stretching that the wedge no longer does a proper job or base pin breaks. I fired 2 shots with about 50 grains and already had to add an 0.020 spring steel shim to the back of the wedge to render proper fit. Have to remember the do not manufacture reproductions with actual gun quality metals. I'm consisering changing the base pin. I believe that new Uberti base pin is of better quality. I need to find out if an Uberti will fit properly on an ASM. I know there is a very slight smaller cylinder diameter but from what I have read it's not enough to be of concern. It's a matter if when installed it clocks correctly at correct length. If all else fails I may be forced to make one. Not an easy task but doable.

I obviously don't have your experience with black powder firearms, but it was my understanding that the metallurgy of the Uberties is far superior to that of the original Colt Walkers, a third of which actually blew up with maximum loads.

I did read an old conversation regarding the steel the now defunct USFA used verses the steel that Uberti used in their Colt replicas. Apparently the steel USFA used was somewhat harder than the Italians. This had the most effect on differences in the wear of internal parts (metal on metal) than it did on the frame, cylinder, and barrel. The hard steel USFA used should last longer than the steel the Italians use, but the parts were more expensive to replace. With that said, the modern steel Uberti uses, should well outlast the shooter, and the metallurgical properties far exceed that of the steel used in the mid 19th century.

I'm not qualified to support or refute this statement, but it does make sense to me.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Personally I'm not very trusting of open top reproductions with max loads. Over my 45 years of shooting BP I've seen and heard about people shooting max loads only to have so much base pin stretching that the wedge no longer does a proper job or base pin breaks. I fired 2 shots with about 50 grains and already had to add an 0.020 spring steel shim to the back of the wedge to render proper fit. Have to remember the do not manufacture reproductions with actual gun quality metals. I'm consisering changing the base pin. I believe that new Uberti base pin is of better quality. I need to find out if an Uberti will fit properly on an ASM. I know there is a very slight smaller cylinder diameter but from what I have read it's not enough to be of concern. It's a matter if when installed it clocks correctly at correct length. If all else fails I may be forced to make one. Not an easy task but doable.

And we're did the two shots print?

 

[TFoley]

Have to remember the do not manufacture reproductions with actual gun quality metals.

You might care to reconsider that statement in view of the position of both Davide Pedersoli and Aldo Uberti in the world of quality replicas of older firearm designs. Every gun they produce, of whatever kind, is made with the compliance of the CIP laws, not advisories, but laws, that lay down the physical requirements of the materials used to produce them. Many of the guns produced by these two major players are also proofed for nitro loads, and a .45-70 Govt FMJ 300gr load is not a pussycat that can be shot in anything less than a 'gun quality material'. The DIN and ISO organisations are also closely tied in to the material standards used in the production of firearms in Europe - and note, please, that unlike the US SAAMI advisories, which simply recommend certain standards within US arms manufacturing, every single aspect of gun-making and proofing in the fourteen CIP nations is actually LAW.

 

[bang]

You might care to reconsider that statement in view of the position of both Davide Pedersoli and Aldo Uberti in the world of quality replicas of older firearm designs. Every gun they produce, of whatever kind, is made with the compliance of the CIP laws, not advisories, but laws, that lay down the physical requirements of the materials used to produce them. Many of the guns produced by these two major players are also proofed for nitro loads, and a .45-70 Govt FMJ 300gr load is not a pussycat that can be shot in anything less than a 'gun quality material'. The DIN and ISO organisations are also closely tied in to the material standards used in the production of firearms in Europe - and note, please, that unlike the US SAAMI advisories, which simply recommend certain standards within US arms manufacturing, every single aspect of gun-making and proofing in the fourteen CIP nations is actually LAW.

You are more than welcome to your opinion. You are also more than welcome to keep it. There is a reason they are "Black Powder Only".

 

[bang]

And we're did the two shots print?

Pretty errelavent for test fire.

 

[azmntman]

I'm kinda in the 8bore camp on this. Quality Control makes or breaks a vendors reputation (in my mind anyway). If I wanted to tune everything (or should I say if I was able to tune everything) then I would by a kit. When I buy a finished revolver or rifle I want it shooting right, RIGHT OUTTA THE BOX. My money is hard earned (and harder hidden from swmbo).

 

[Markham]

I'm kinda in the 8bore camp on this. Quality Control makes or breaks a vendors reputation (in my mind anyway). If I wanted to tune everything (or should I say if I was able to tune everything) then I would by a kit. When I buy a finished revolver or rifle I want it shooting right, RIGHT OUTTA THE BOX. My money is hard earned (and harder hidden from swmbo).

I can only speak for my experience.

But the Uberti Walker I bought was fine straight out of the box. As I wrote earlier, I had read about the short arbor problem that plagued Uberties, so I measured mine right away. It was absolutely perfect. As to tuning the action, I get the impression that most of that is done by people for various cowboy shooting competitions. I can't imagine a Walker being used for any kind of quick draw action outside of the movies. It's just too big and heavy in my opinion.

I think I'm going to file my hammer sight, to open it up a little, and I'm going to open up the loading port a little to accommodate larger conicals like Eras Gone By Molds Dragoon, and perhaps some of Kaido Ojamaa's. But other than that, I can't see doing anything else to it right now.

 

[Markham]

You are more than welcome to your opinion. You are also more than welcome to keep it. There is a reason they are "Black Powder Only".

You mentioned ASM, I assume you're talking about Armi San Marco? I thought they went out of business years ago? This is something I found on another forum.

Armi San Marco is still making guns and they are known for making guns with bad workmanship. They make the guns for different companies and the workmanship is terrible. A friend of mine purchased a 1874 Sharps repo made by them a few years back for a Christmas gift for his son. The firing pin broke on the 3 or 4th shot. He took the gun back.

They make the guns for Chiappa now and the quality is still the worst out of Italy. I was told a few years back that the other gun makers in Italy approached them and requested that they work harder on the craftsmanship as they were giving the Italian gun makers a bad name. They refused to talk with the others. When Puma started having the 92's made by them instead of Rossi in Brazil, they increased the prices but not the workmanship. All you have to do is go inside of a gun made by them and you will see how bad it is. They thought if they started raising the price on their guns to in the same range as Uberti that all the problems would go away. Didn't happen though. They are the Edsel of the Gun business. Later Fairshake

Do you think your bad experience might be specific to ASM?

 

[bang]

You mentioned ASM, I assume you're talking about Armi San Marco? I thought they went out of business years ago? This is something I found on another forum.

Armi San Marco is still making guns and they are known for making guns with bad workmanship. They make the guns for different companies and the workmanship is terrible. A friend of mine purchased a 1874 Sharps repo made by them a few years back for a Christmas gift for his son. The firing pin broke on the 3 or 4th shot. He took the gun back.

They make the guns for Chiappa now and the quality is still the worst out of Italy. I was told a few years back that the other gun makers in Italy approached them and requested that they work harder on the craftsmanship as they were giving the Italian gun makers a bad name. They refused to talk with the others. When Puma started having the 92's made by them instead of Rossi in Brazil, they increased the prices but not the workmanship. All you have to do is go inside of a gun made by them and you will see how bad it is. They thought if they started raising the price on their guns to in the same range as Uberti that all the problems would go away. Didn't happen though. They are the Edsel of the Gun business. Later Fairshake

Do you think your bad experience might be specific to ASM?

I've shot it enpugh I believe my only concern is the base pin but then I have known quite a few over the years that also were concerned about their base pin in other than ASMs. Problems seem to arise with heavy loads which is why I suggest to anyone with open top frames to avoid heavy loads. There is always a bit of break in but once shot some should settle. Even known a few to have to pick up barrel assy. down range due to base pin failure. Those were pistols that had some time on them and a lot of rounds put through them. From some reading it seems the major issue with the ASM Walker is the base pin but improved later in production. Luckily mine is one of late production and hope with careful use of moderate loads it won't be a problem. One other ASM issue was too soft metal in wedge but that is way easier to fix then the base pin.