Want to hear about .40 cal for deer.

[Travis Gregory]

All you guys who have used .40cal on deer I want to hear some of your stories good or bad. I know there are a lot of people that say it isnt enough for deer but I want to make up my own mind. I feel the best way to do this without my own experience it to base my decision off of other peoples actual experiences not opinions. I also want to know what your pet loads for deer and squirrels are. Thanks.

 

[roundball]

"...pet loads for deer and squirrels..."

DEER LOAD
N/A

SQUIRREL LOAD
30grns Goex 3F
.018" pillow ticking
Hornady .395"

 

[paulvallandigham]

Its a 50 yard deer gun, but of course, there are honest stories of deer being killed at twice that range. Many states have regulations limiting the caliber for deer hunting rifles to .45 and larger, So you can't use the .40 in those states to hunt deer. But, they work very well on coyotes, which are ubiquitous, as well as smaller varmints, and small game. The .40 is a very popular target caliber.

If truth were to be told, Most deer killed, with either MLers or with modern shotguns and shotgun slugs, are killed inside 50 yards.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Good luck in getting an answer Turkhunter, not many people can report real results because not many people have actually taken deer with a .40 caliber ML rifle and I'm not one of them. Like everyone else, I have an opinion but that is not what you asked for. I did see Ted Nugent on TV down a doe with his 10mm Glock. :haha:

 

[Travis Gregory]

A .40cal is legal to hunt deer with here in Arkansas as well as being the max caliber for small game. The reason Im so interested in the .40 is that I can legally carry it in the woods here 10 months out of the year and kill everything legally except turkeys. It is also legal for black bear here. 80% or more of the deer that I have killed including the ones with centerfire rifles have been killed 50yds or less so the range really isn't that big of an issue. Where I hunt, even after the leaves fall, I can rarely get at clear shot at a deer over 50yds even with a scope sight.

 

[Herb]

Carole killed this mule deer with a .40 caliber. She and her husband Carl probably killed deer most years of their about 40 years of married life, some with muzzleloaders. She has killed them with her TC .50 caliber, but it is too hard for her to load and too long and heavy for her to shoot well. So we designed this custom flintlock that I built for her, and she shoots it very well. (They go to the National Youth Hunter Safety meets at Mansfield, PA and Raton, NM). But here in Utah, legal ball weight for ML deer hunting is, I think, 150 grains and the .40 weighs only about 92. The game warden suggested double balling, there being no conicals on the market. I experimented until satisfied it would work well. Velocity drop from a single .390 ball and 35 grains of Goex 3F to double ball, first patched and seated and second patched and seated on that, was about 435 fps if I remember. So I upped the charge to 70 grains of Goex 3F to get about the same velocity. At 50 yards the balls would strike about 1/2 inch apart, on point of aim. Accuracy was fine and the pressure was not too high. Lyman's Black Powder Handbook and Loading Manual, 2nd Edition, does not list .40 caliber loads, but their max for Goex 3F and a .36 roundball is 70 grains, and for .45 caliber it is 120 grains.

She saw this buck at about 70 yards, walking into heavy brush, and shot a raking shot to penetrate forward through the midsection. One ball hit the hip bone and stopped and the other, perhaps only an inch away, penetrated the body and severed an artery. The deer laid down, but I think she used a finishing shot on him.

A single ball would have done the same thing, if it missed the hip bone, but that is not legal here. Using double ball is a tricky thing. I do not recommend it, and will try to have a conical for her next season. Both balls must be down on the powder and stay there. If for any reason that top ball oozes forward, you have an obstructed bore, which will be damaged upon firing. So you have to make CERTAIN the second ball is down on top of that first ball, and probably recheck it while hunting. I have not had any separate, but shot them only from the bench. If you check the seating, then you need to dump your powder pan or pull the percussion cap. My statement is that you better have a really good reason to shoot double balls, then be very careful that the second one stays seated. I do not recommend the practice for that reason.

 

[tg]

I have taken 4 deer with .40 two does and two nice bucks,60gr3f .395 ball .015 patch (might have been 0.18). shots were25- 60 yds the bucks went down on the spot the does ran about 25 yds then piled up, this is a small cal for deer but if you get into archery range of a bit farther and make a good shot the deer will go down, range is the key with any ML bore size along with shot placement, you have to be a good judge of the first and know your abilities on the second. Then decide whether to take the shot.I have helped find deer hit low and far back with a .58,some time later after a sighting in session with that fellow I suggested he take up fishing.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Although I have heard of more powder being used in .40 caliber guns, 50 grains of FFFg produces almost 1800 fps MV. My brother recorded a MV of 1915 fps with his 31 inch barrel, and 2044 fps MV with 60 grains of FFFg powder! I fired a 60 grain load, and that does produce noticeable recoil. Its not the most accurate powder charge in his gun, either.

Notice the Law of Diminishing Returns in operation in those loads:

If 50 grains produces 1914 fps, and an increase of 20%( 10 grains) of powder produces only 2044 fps, you have an increase of only 9% of velocity for that 20 % increase in powder. According to Charles Davenport's formula, the most efficient load in .40 caliber for a 31 inch barrel would be 44.8 grains.

Expect velocity to be about half that at 50 yards, simply because the small ball loses so much velocity so quickly. And because of drag factors, that small ball slows down faster the faster it hits the air. That is why I said its a 50 yd. deer caliber.

There are a couple of states where even smaller caliber guns can be legally used to shoot deer, and I know a few hunters who use subcalibers to deer hunt, mostly taking close shots(25 yds. and less) and aiming for the head. :hmm:

 

[PGTMG]

All you guys who have used .40cal on deer I want to hear some of your stories good or bad. I know there are a lot of people that say it isnt enough for deer but I want to make up my own mind. I feel the best way to do this without my own experience it to base my decision off of other peoples actual experiences not opinions. I also want to know what your pet loads for deer and squirrels are. Thanks.

Hi I wrote this a little while back and am cutting and pasting because my opinion has not changed.

I also shot a deer with a 40 caliber percussion rifle. The distance was between 65-70 yards. The deer was in a field in excellent light, standing broadside and intent on feeding. I have used this rifle for the majority of my shooting and have extreme confidence with it. At my shot the buck took off like well...a shot.
If I had not heard the hit I would have thought I missed. Lucky for me it ran parallel to the woods along the field until it veered into the woods in what turned out to be briars bushes. He if he had run in a straight line it would have close to a hundred yards. I had another person with me which was very helpful. I reloaded and gave the deer time to bleed. When we got there the four point was stone dead.

Here I guess are my observations
1) Blood around the mouth indicated a solid lung hits.
2) The ball went right through the buck which was smaller than average buck but still it surprised me at that range.
3) When we walked the field we noticed very little blood trail.
4) The 40 is defiantly a deer killer but it is not a deer stopper.

My advice is before you hunt deer with a 40 make sure your shooting and tracking skills are up to the task.

Deer load is 60 grains 3F and sperm oil patched ball.

squirrel is 40 grains 3f PRB ( it is heavy but I always hope for coyotes)

Thanks
Paul

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I have a .40 that I have taken squirrel,groundhog,fox,turkey and 1 deer(doe) I was shooting 55 grs. of pyrodex(not anymore) w/.395 Hornady rb and pillow tick patch. The one deer was shot app. 80-90 yds. that was really too far but it did leave a fair blood trail as it passed through the lungs never touching a rib in or out. The doe ran almost 150 yds. After that I never shot anymore deer with it and went to a .50 and now a.54 Some would say this is too big but I would rather have more than less. When used it as a cap lock it would shoot 25 grs of 3f(small game load) but having changed to flint it wouldn't give the same group until raising the powder charge to 40 grs.

Here in WV .38 is the minimum allowed for deer. Don't know if it is true or not but heard a politican had one that was his grandpa's and wanted to be able to hunt deer with so got the minimum lowered. If a .40 was all I had I wouldn't stay home from deer hunting but would limit my shots to about 50 yds as others have stated with a max. load unless you are a REAL good brain shot!

 

[Tom Compton]

.40 Douglas barrel, 42", .395 PRB, 75 gr FFg Goex (2120 FPS) is my 100 yard target load and very accurate. Took a nice 8 point last Saturday at 65 yards. Ball veered upward after hitting a rib and took out 2 vertebrae. I would say a .40 w/ PRB is marginal at best on deer sized game. Though I have three .40s will not hunt deer again w/ a PRB. Looked today for .410 or .40 lead pistol bullets but none in stock in the 3 places I visited. Will cone out the base to make a hollow based conical. If I can stabilize the longer bullet with the 1:66 twist and not key hole, should make the .40 good on deer. :hmm:

Would post pic but cannot figure out the method. Is this an option only for premium members?

TC

 

[Travis Gregory]

Ok here is what I have gathered so far: Several people have posted marginal results for the 40 and only one guy has posted good results. I knew when I started this topic that the 40 had a relativly short range and I said that I was ok with that as all my ambush spots call for a 50yd max shot most are less than 40. All the people that have reported marginal results and have recommended against the 40 have cited experiences where their shots were taken at 65yds and beyond. The one guy that has posted good results for the 40 said all his shots were 60yds or less and I beleive he is an archery hunter as well and probably sets up for close shots as I do. Just makes me say hmmm.

 

[captgary]

Shot a buck at 18 yards with a bow from my ground blind he went 20 yards and dropped. From the same blind I shot a doe at 26 yards with .395 ball, 50 grains Goex fff, .015 patch. She went 45 yards and dropped. All my hunting buddies use those huge scoped unmentionable black powder rifles and my doe shot with a flinter gives me all the bragging rights :wink: :grin: :grin: :blah:

 

[Tom Compton]

" - - All the people that have reported marginal results and have recommended against the 40 have cited experiences where their shots were taken at 65yds and beyond. The one guy that has posted good results for the 40 said all his shots were 60yds or less and I beleive he is an archery hunter as well and probably sets up for close shots as I do."

You did not want the info "good and bad" as stated in the opening post, you wanted confirmation that you are right so one positive out of several and you latched on to it. By the way I took a 7 point just before thanksgiving with a bow so what is your point about bow hunters? This set up was for 40 yards or less over an active scrape in the morning but the buck hung up.

Sonny, I won matches in Berryville when you were in kindergarten and have taken many deer over the years the first in '76 w/ a .50 at a little under 20 yards. The 40 w/ a PRB is a marginal deer round - period. Doesn't mean that it can't be done, just marginal. The first one I shot w/ a .40 was in '80 at 26 yards and marginal performance then because it failed to exit and the downward angle of the shot didn't allow a blood trail until the chest cavity was nearly full. Ain't gonna get any better.

I will try to hand make a minie type projectile as mentioned in previous post or not use my beloved .40s for deer. I no longer want to spend 2 hours in the dark looking for the first blood sign when the shot was in the boiler room.

Good luck.
TC

 

[Travis Gregory]

Wasnt meaning any disrespect to anyone. Just seemed to me that everyone you ask says the 40 is a shorter range gun and according to these posts it does ok within its limits. The posts that reported marginal results were all shots outside the range that most folks seem to agree is the outer limits for the 40 that is all. The first deer I ever drew blood from and lost (one of only 3 in my lifetime) was with a .54 roundball and the shot was less than 20 yds. I hit the deer high above the lungs and below the spine right behind the shoulder. My dad jumped the deer about 20hrs later the next day and it ran away never to be seen again. Bad things can happen with any caliber. I know people that swear you cant kill a deer with anything less than a 7mm magnum and we all know that isnt the case. I know the 40 probably isnt the best cal for deer but what I wanted to know was is it good within its range limitations, or am I gonna loose 50% of the deer I shoot with it no matter the range or shot placement.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you check with Lyman, or RCBS, or NEI, or Rapine, there are many molds existing that cast bullets in .40 and .41 calibers. All have to be run through a sizing die, as all cast bullets should be. It is very rare that you find a mold that will throw a perfectly sperical bullet, time after time.

My brother is working with a 185 grain 40 caliber cast bullet in his guns. He has both fast and slow twist .40s. The lighter, shorter bullets have the best chance of being stabilized in the slow twist barrel you mention. With faster ROTs, you can move up to over 200 grain bullets and get superb accuracy.

 

[PJC]

If it works for David Crockett, it should work for you to take a few whitetailed deer.

His first rifle, a .48-caliber flintlock, hasn't been outside Tennessee since 1806, and now resides in the pioneer collection at the East Tennessee Historical Society Museum in Knoxville. For much appreciated service in the Tennessee State Assembly, Crockett's Lawrence County constituents presented him with a .40-caliber flintlock crafted by James Graham around 1822. Calling this rifle "Old Betsy", Crockett used it to kill 125 bears between 1825 and 1834. When he departed for Texas in 1835, Davy left "Old Betsy" with his son, John Wesley. Today, it resides in the Alamo Museum collection in San Anton

 

[rdillion]

Same reason I went will a 40cal. :thumbsup:

 

[PGTMG]

I know the 40 probably isnt the best cal for deer but what I wanted to know was is it good within its range limitations, or am I gonna loose 50% of the deer I shoot with it no matter the range or shot placement.

The .40 is marginal for deer but it is on the right side of the margin. You are not going to lose 50% of your deer unless your marksmanship or tracking is not up to the challenge.

I had the pleasue of meetng a man named Steven White (he is an artist and has written articles for "Muzzle Blast")he hunts with a .40 flintlock and is very sucessful.

Hunting with a .40 for deer is something I may do again (if my Nephew wanted to try BP hunting with me). He is eighteen and I would give him my hawken .54 and I would take the .40.

Looking over people responses who had hunted deer with the .40 (your guidline in you post). I came away with this you better be more expert than novice if you are going to hunt deer with this caliber. Also there are better calibers for the job.

I have said it before the .40 is a deer killer but not a deer stopper.

I know you did not ask for only postive responses about caliber but if you did consider this thread " .54 and above, are they OK for deer?" :grin:

 

[tg]

"I know you did not ask for only postive responses about caliber but if you did consider this thread " .54 and above, are they OK for deer?""

Not really, the smaller cals. kill the deer fine...those big ones tend to kill them more deader..not a good thing :wink: