war club?

[Jaeger]

http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg292/tomkomj/?action=view&current=boisdarc001.jpg

Hey all you whittlers:
Take a look at this piece of Osage Orange wood and tell me if you think there could be an Iroquois war club hiding in there. I'm not sure I have enough length. By the way, Osage Orange is not easy to find in Michigan, but I found a grove.
And no, those "moccassins" in the picture are not PC.

 

[LaBonte]

Not Iroquois - but here's an Osage (tribe) gunstock warclub made of bois d'arc circa 1825

it's 27.5" long but other documented originals measure from 22-33"

Ball clubs are also documented for use in the midwest and eastern plains. I've got pics of both types if need be....

 

[longshot47]

Those knots look like they might give ya some trouble? Tough to say from here.

 

[StevePrice2]

Fire up the chain saw, table saw, band saw, rasps and gouges!

If there's a war club hiding in that log let the chips fly and bring it out.

In other words, I'd say go for it since you have a local source for more.

Oops I almost forgot...Have you cured it yet? If not dip or coat the ends in wax and set it in the dry shade for a year, then carve it. good luck.

Steve

 

[paulvallandigham]

That Osage Orange is twisty, gnarly stuff, and you may be able to cut it with a chain saw( have spares) and with a rasp, but I would not want to be the one working on it with chisels or gouges. Talk about a ROYAL PITA! You don't want to use a good axe on the stuff either.

I had a friend who told me about cutting Osage Orange hedges down during the Great Depression in the 1930s, and how he used a two man bucksaw to cut the trees. He saved a few relatively straight sections and made his first bow out of the stick, but he swore he would never try to do that again. The wood is still used to make stick bows, but it does take a lot of hand work and " elbow grease".

 

[kansas_volunteer]

In my experience working with osage wood, I've learned it is best to do as much of the rough work with it while it is still green. If you wait for it to dry, you've got a heck of a lot of hand-blistering work before you. Don't be afraid to use your best tools on it, because you'll need very sharp tools to work it, especially when you get through the sap wood and into the heartwood. The knots will be about as easy to carve as rocks. Expect the heartwood to turn dark once exposed to air and light and finish. I've seen some very old NDN bows of osage that were almost black -- a long way from the mustard yellow of fresh wood.

 

[Birdman]

jaeger, best way to find out is to start cutten away anything that ain't part of the club ya got in mind. Yer in fer a workout like others have said. OO will start out a sweet butterscotch yellow n age to dark brown with exposure to air n sun light. I've got an OO bow n it gets darker every year, beautiful finish n sweet shooting. Go for it n save the bigger cut offs for knife handles etc.

 

[buffcreekforge]

Osage orange is some of the densest, hardest wood you will ever work. When we cut it for firewood, if you get into a dry piece with a chainsaw you will see some sparks. I occasionally turn carving mallets out of dry bois d'arc wood (osage orange) and it is a beast on gouges and chisels. I either stop and re-sharpen every few minutes or use all 8 gouges I have for the lathe. I would not want to carve a war club out of dry hedge wood! :surrender:

 

[Jaeger]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, guys.I think the piece is partially cured, since it has been laying by the side of the road for several years. The grove of trees is next to a road, and road crews have done some cutting back from time to time.I guess the stuff doesn't rot very fast, and the pieces of wood lying around this area are pretty clear evidence of that. I'm going to let this piece rest in my garage for six months to finish drying out before I work with it. I'll let you know how it goes

 

[dyemaker]

He saved a few relatively straight sections and made his first bow out of the stick, but he swore he would never try to do that again. The wood is still used to make stick bows, but it does take a lot of hand work and " elbow grease".

I found a few young trees growing under cover of much taller trees in a holler by the woods while looking for fungi this spring. I figure thats how you find straight growing ones for bows. Of course it's the grain that matters. In full sunlight they twist and bend and sag towards the ground but in shade they have to compete so the grow taller and straighter. I'd need a hacksaw to cut it. Chisels might be better than knives for working up a club.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yep. The same goes for finding straight grain hickory for ramrods, or equipment handles. Cut them in the winter-time, when the sap is out, to get an easier cut. Hickory is also used for bows, and more than one club has been made from that wood. I know of some ravines here that have young hickory trees growing straight up under the shade of older trees, more than 40 feet, before their few leaves reach sunlight, or the wind. Only at the top do you see the twisting of the bark.

Once in a blue moon we find an osage orange tree growing in the bottoms, because squirrels take seeds everywhere.

Mostly, these trees were made into windbreaks, during the CCC days in the Great Depression, to stop soil erosion on the flat grounds. The tree is so tough, that some O.O. fence posts have been known to sprout roots and leaves, and grow into a new tree, if used in wet soils. The first time you see one of these, you start looking for some sign of "grafting", but when you don't find it, and only see a " Shelf" where the top of the post was originally cut, and find the " new " tree growing off one side of the post, you start to wonder if anything can kill those trees. :thumbsup:

 

[Roy]

I like to cut my hickory in the spring.. sap is up and I don't have to fight with the bark coming off.

 

[Roy]

Matter of fact.. the last osage bow I made I worked it was green. I got the bark and sap wood off and chased down to a growth ring in about 4 hours.. sealed the ends and let it dry. Working dry osage is a bit of a hassle.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The reason for cutting in the winter with the sap DOWN is to get a much harder, stronger piece of wood. Since you split out lengths of Hickory, running with the grain to make tool handles, and ramrods, there is no problem using winter cut wood. The Bark is removed in the splitting process.

The Benefit to using Wintercut wood is you have a new handle or ramrod as soon as you complete the work. There is no DRYING time, like when you cut the trees in the Spring or summer when the Sap is UP.

Drying also involves shrinkage, and relieving stresses in the wood caused during the growth cycle. That is what causes the checks, and splits found in hardwoods. You get little or none of this with Wintercut hickory.

 

[Roy]

Hickory and Osage are two different animals. Hickory will do great, with the sap wood on. I have cut them and split them to either bow width or ramrod material in the same day. all of the checking happens at the ends. Splitting them increases the drying time.
Osage if you remove the bark you better well remove the sap wood too, if not it will check all over. I don't care if the wood is 3 days after cut or 9 years. Remove the bark without the sap wood and it will check (from past expieriences). Now once I have the bow about 1/3 oversized (green) I coat the back and let it dry for however long in the rafters. I force dryed one bow, took two weeks. I do think that if I would have let it dry like normally I do that it may have turned out a few #'s heavier for it size. But all in all it was a good servicable bow. 56#'s at 28" with an inch of string follow.

Now since I have made a handfull of bows, and God knows how many split ramrods (one for every gun sometimes 2) I just might know what I am talking about... atleast when it comes to hickory.

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.. Good luck Jaeger on the war club. :v I am interested in seeing the outcome. :thumbsup:

 

[kansas_volunteer]

Jaegar, if the piece has been laying beside the road a few years, it is probably already dry enough to work. Yes, osage is very rot resistent. When I was a boy, there were some very old osage posts behind the house. The were very weathered and gray, the surface was quite rough, and had carpenter ants in them. I decided I was going to try to make a bow out of one. I cut it with my dad's one-man cross cut saw, which I dulled in the the process, but I found the inside of the post still a bright mustard yellow.

I disagree with those who advise cutting when the sap is down. Cut in in early spring when the sap begins to flow, but no new growth ring has started to form. Sap only flows in the outside of the tree, and not in the yellow heart wood you want to use for bows, knife scales and such. There is always water trapped within the cells of the heart wood, but it doesn't flow, it's trapped and there winter or summer. It's this water that takes time to evaporate when the wood is seasoned, not sap. So, cut your osage, or any other wood, when the sap is flowing, it will make peeling the bark and white sap wood easier, and won't have any effect on the drying time of the yellow heart wood. Work the wood to near finished dimension when wet, then let it dry. I will season faster that way.

 

[Roy]

:thumbsup:

 

[dyemaker]

Osage if you remove the bark you better well remove the sap wood too, if not it will check all over. I don't care if the wood is 3 days after cut or 9 years. Remove the bark without the sap wood and it will check (from past expieriences). Now once I have the bow about 1/3 oversized (green) I coat the back and let it dry for however long in the rafters.

You coat it with Elmers glue?

Osage Orange wood is also nice for making duck or turkey calls or predator calls and walking sticks by the way.

 

[Roy]

actually yes I did :haha: but thinkin back not too sure it was needed.. just made me feel better. :v

 

[dyemaker]

Save the dust of the orange heartwood because it can be used as a dye for another project. It might even match the color.
:hmm:

There's some info about that here. I dyed some Angora goat mohair ( substitute for seals fur ) to make a golden stonefly nymph pattern for flyfishing using Osage Orange dust and it worked out really well. The smell of the dust is hard to descibe and kinda lingers does it not.

I don't know how to hide the URL and just point to HERE