Was Dutch right about wiping between shots?

[Crawfish]

I have a TC Hawken I built from a kit. Nice rifle, but I am struggling with misfires. The hammer fallis, charge in the pan goes off, but the powder charge does not fire. This happened at least a dozen times today.
I have been attempting to follow The Dutch Schultz method of getting accuracy. He recommends wiping between shots. I do get a lot of fouling removed that way. However, I am thinking I may be pushing fouling back ino the path of the flame from the pan.
Today I used Goex 2F, although the same thing happened wit Scheutzen powder.
About half way through the shoot, I took the vent liner out, pipe cleaner attempted to clear out any junk between the powder in the pan, and the main charge.
My vent liner is drilled out to 1/16”.
Any ideas?

 

[Stumpkiller]

I wipe about every fifth shot with a rifle.

How much powder are you priming with. It should be level and slightly BELOW the vent. Thinking back, I don't believe in the 44 years I've shot flintlocks that I have ever removed a vent liner. I've had several that had no liner (Kit Ravenshear once told me that they were a repair item and new flintlocks should not have them. )

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

while I respect DUTCH results will vary...

 

[SDSmlf]

I have been attempting to follow The Dutch Schultz method of getting accuracy. He recommends wiping between shots. I do get a lot of fouling removed that way. However, I am thinking I may be pushing fouling back ino the path of the flame from the pan.

I have found Dutch’s ‘system’ can work very well, IF you follow it, though others will disagree.

A couple of observations. You are concerned that you are pushing fouling back into the path of the flame from the pan, so assume you are. Now correct things. Are you using a loose fitting jag and patch combination? Ideally, you should not be pushing anything, only pulling ‘stuff’ out of the bore, not pushing it. Another question, are you by chance ‘picking’ through the touchhole to make sure things are clear? Also, as I recall, Dutch never claimed his system was intended for flintlocks, though he asked for feedback from those shooting flint.

 

[morehops52]

How do you clean at end of day? Do you take the barrel off and pump flush it in a bucket of warm water + dish soap? If not, you may have accumulated crud in the breech. Just a thought.

 

[Kansas Kid]

Just ram and seat the ball with a jag and cleaning patch. Now you wiped the bore without pushing fouling down into the breech area.

 

[deerstalkert]

when you shoot, before you even look at the target, look at the vent hole and watch for smoke curling out. if you see it your flame path is unobstructed. I can hear the caterwauling already, but i add some moist air to the bore and watch the vent to confirm it is really clear. no i don't like the taste of bear fat like some accuse me of.
check your target and load your next shot. if you have seen via the smoke that all is clear, and dump the powder in, bounce the butt on your toes, or slap the side, there should be no reason for a misfire.

 

[tenngun]

I find 1/16 prone to misfires, I like 5/64 or 3/32
A cavet is that TC used a patent breach and I have heard, not known for myself, that these can have fouling issues

 

[SDSmlf]

My vent likee is drilled out to 1/16”.
Any ideas?

I’ll probably get some pushback, but I have been opening my touchholes to 5/64” for years. With the frizzen down (some consider this is safety concern) and using 3F powder for the main charge, there will be powder in the pan after seating the ball if things are clear when you open frizzen to charge the pan. The 5/64” touchhole has never created accuracy issues or concerns.

 

[Crawfish]

I prime below the level of the pan, and take care that no powder is covering the touch hole.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have a TC Hawken I built from a kit. Nice rifle, but I am struggling with misfires. The hammer fallis, charge in the pan goes off, but the powder charge does not fire. This happened at least a dozen times today.
I have been attempting to follow The Dutch Schultz method of getting accuracy. He recommends wiping between shots. I do get a lot of fouling removed that way. However, I am thinking I may be pushing fouling back ino the path of the flame from the pan.
Today I used Goex 2F, although the same thing happened wit Scheutzen powder.
About half way through the shoot, I took the vent liner out, pipe cleaner attempted to clear out any junk between the powder in the pan, and the main charge.
My vent likee is drilled out to 1/16”.
Any ideas?

One of the things we have to consider is the construction of the T/C breech. It has a chambered breech that is smaller than the bore diameter. The jags sold are designed for cleaning the bore after a session of shooting. The T/C with the hooked breech is designed for the cleaning action of the turbulent flow of water as the tightly fitting cleaning jag does an effective job of cleaning the fouling from the breech if one uses soap and water to force the fouling and the residual oils from the bore and the breech.

Now it is time to listen to @SDSmlf.

I have found Dutch’s ‘system’ can work very well, IF you follow it, though others will disagree.

A couple of observations. You are concerned that you are pushing fouling back into the path of the flame from the pan, so assume you are. Now correct things. Are you using a loose fitting jag and patch combination? Ideally, you should not be pushing anything, only pulling ‘stuff’ out of the bore, not pushing it. Another question, are you by chance ‘picking’ through the touchhole to make sure things are clear? Also, as I recall, Dutch never claimed his system was intended for flintlocks, though he asked for feedback from those shooting flint.

That tight fitting cleaning jag needs to be turned or held in a drill to file off a small amount of diameter, so the jag and patch slides over the fouling and bunches up tightly to pull the fouling from the bore. One pass with a barely damp patch is all that is necessary. This keeps the bore in a consistent condition with respect to the fouling. When cleaning a chambered breech, a sub caliber brush with a cleaning patch will take out fouling and burnt on grease and oils that have accumulated.

The top shooters in my gun club wipe between shots for the paper target matches. They use a damp patch for the round ball for the reactive target matches where a slightly more open group is not detrimental. The damp patch keeps the fouling soft and most of the fouling is shot out the barrel. Usually, the bore needs a cleaning wipe when loading becomes difficult somewhere between 5 and 10 rounds. As loading becomes difficult, groups open up.

 

[RiverRat]

I am right handed and I always tilt the gun to the right just before firing, to move the powder away from the touch hole causing a clear path for the flame.

 

[SDSmlf]

That tight fitting cleaning jag needs to be turned or held in a drill to file off a small amount of diameter, so the jag and patch slides over the fouling and bunches up tightly to pull the fouling from the bore.

The basic patch/jag fit combination I was taught decades ago, and I am pretty sure it was also one of Dutch’s recommendations, though I didn’t check writings, was to have a jag sized so that with two of your cleaning patches on it, the combination would slide down a CLEAN bore with little more than the weight of a range rod. Then use a single patch for cleaning between shots.

 

[Crawfish]

Definitely smoke curling out of the touch hole after a shot. I had forgotten that Dutch said TWO patches. I will try using a smaller jag, no way the rig I am using slides down the bore.
I have an extra vent liner, and will drill out to 5/64ths.
This is very good info, guys! Thanks!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Once the jag is sized for wiping between shots, you can use two patches for cleaning after the shooting session.

@Crawfish, get the number set of drill bits. If you ever have to tap some threads, you will need a set of number drills. Use the one that is 0.070 which is between the 1/16 and 5/64. I have found that to be reliable. One should use the smallest diameter touch hole for consistent ignition.

 

[oldwoodchas.]

Not a fan of removing flintlock vent liners , except if the touch hole has enlarged to a too large size causing accuracy to drop off. I have no familiarity with modern plains rifle breech plugs. I'm old school , and use a correct sized bronze brush on a range rod to pull fouling tight spots out of a dirty bore , say about every 4 or 5 shots. Using a regular flint breech plug , push the brush down the bore until it stops , then as if you were going to tighten the brush onto the ramrod , turn the ramrod a 1/3 to 1/2 turn clockwise , then extract the brush back out of the bore , and reload. The nature of the bristles pull more fouling out than appears to push the fouling onto the breech plug. Reload as normal , and apply your touch hole pick , paper clip etc. , prime , and all should fire ok. One thing , especially at the range , rub the brush on the edge of the shooting bench to clean the fouling out ot the bristles. A caution.......get one of those heavy duty cork screw r/r tools , in case the brush breaks off in the bore. That happened to me once 20 yrs. ago. I carry the cork screw tool also , to remove an errant powderless load from my shotgun . LOL

 

[waksupi]

When you put in the powder, bump the stock a couple times on the ground, or slap the side of the gun a few times to settle the powder in. With those patent breeches, it's along way for a spark to travel if the powder isn't all the way to the vent.

 

[olskool]

i can shoot literally all day long and i never wipe a thing but my nose! you do not need all the tricky things to make a gun shoot good. i use 40-60% dawn dish soap for lube. wet the patch thoroughly and load. this keeps the bore clean and the accuracy is top shelf. the 100th ball will slide down the bore like the first, and it will make cleanup of the barrel easy. or you can keep on doing what you are doing with misfires,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Mulebrain]

i can shoot literally all day long and i never wipe a thing but my nose! you do not need all the tricky things to make a gun shoot good. i use 40-60% dawn dish soap for lube. wet the patch thoroughly and load. this keeps the bore clean and the accuracy is top shelf. the 100th ball will slide down the bore like the first, and it will make cleanup of the barrel easy. or you can keep on doing what you are doing with misfires,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yes this!

This method allows you more shooting time, instead of unneeded gimmicks.

No wiping ever, and off hand! Not my target shot by a member of our club

 

[olskool]

Yes this!

This method allows you more shooting time, instead of unneeded gimmicks.

No wiping ever, and off hand! Not my target shot by a member of our club

View attachment 362598

i had a very good friend show me the dawn lube method and i never looked back,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,