was there a "transitional Rifle"

[rich pierce]

BTW I forgot about this one, another short rifle, was auctioned last November through Morphy's. Interesting piece, clearly restocked here from a much earlier German gun. 30" barrel. I don't personally think it's crazy early but it's probably preWar or maybe back into the 1760s. Really don't think it's any earlier than that.

Lot Detail - (A) EARLY NEWLY DISCOVERED PRE-REVOLUTIONARY WAR AMERICAN FLINTLOCK JAEGER RIFLE.

Something that maybe has not been addressed - so say someone brings a gunstocker a wrecked gun from, say, the 1730s or 1740s, but now it's 20 or 30 years later. Customer wants the gun restocked using the original barrel, lock, furnishings etc. So how does it get restocked? Does the gunstocker try to restock 'out of fashion' components in a newer style, or does he try to restock it closer in style to the original gun, despite perhaps never having worked in that 'archaic' style? Hmmmmm. I think this one is an example of the latter approach, because it's (imho) kind of wonky and just has the gut feel (to me) of a later gun someone was trying to stock up in an earlier form to accommodate the hardware. Again, I don't mean later in terms of Federal era later, but I think the gunstocker was trying to look backwards by 20-30 years and maybe did not have much experience in stocking in that fashion so did the best he could with what he had to work with.

Eric, I agree. For some reason I’m inclined to think of Schroyer or an associate. Maybe the cheek carving. Just an impression.

 

[rich pierce]

Ok, here is another gun that is past the “Old country” feel for me. An American longrifle perhaps stocked in the 1770s. Short barrel. Auction says “as found” but looks shiny to me. As found guns I’ve found are dull as an old hoe handle. But it’s a nice study piece and would sure make a handy rifle. Unsigned, probably Berks county PA based on tang carving.

 

[excess650]

Rich,
All I can say is that is one of those mystery guns. I see the fan or shell behind the tang, but the stock architecture seems wrong for "Berks" as does the buttplate and trigger guard. The lack of carving behind the cheekpiece, and no beavertails seems more like 1820, but the mass of the buttstock seems earlier. Maybe a later John Schreit? or maybe a John Hagey?

 

[ekettenburg]

Maybe a later John Schreit?

Funny you say that because that was the first thing that popped into my mind.

 

[Brokennock]

We also have an example of a rifle with sling mounts here, and a potentially early one at that,,,,, something that seems to get debated often.

 

[ekettenburg]

What is debatable about sling mounts? I ask because maybe I missed something. There are many examples of old antiques that carry evidence of having had slings. Since we're discussing early pieces, Marshall rifle, for one. Also the Musician rifle mentioned above. Many others too. This one is fairly interesting because the sling hangers are still present which is usually not the case.

 

[Brokennock]

What is debatable about sling mounts? I ask because maybe I missed something. There are many examples of old antiques that carry evidence of having had slings. Since we're discussing early pieces, Marshall rifle, for one. Also the Musician rifle mentioned above. Many others too. This one is fairly interesting because the sling hangers are still present which is usually not the case.

I always seem to recall seeing them on the Marshall rifle and others. But, seems like every time someone brings up putting sling mounts on their rifle, a group of people always suggests some sort of temporary tie on method stating that it was mostly muskets that had sling attachment hardware.

I tend to be drawn towards the earlier guns. Could sling attachment hardware be part of this so called "transition" from more Germanic/European style guns, (whether imported/snuggled in as a whole gun, stocked from imported/smuggled parts, or maybe a restock of hardware from and old or broken gun, done by an immigrant craftsman), to the slimmer more uniquely American longrifle? I don't recall seeing pics of a Lehigh or other later, very slender, rifle having sling hardware.
Could be a Euro vs. American style thing? Even today, I rarely see an American upland hunter with a sling on a shotgun, but it seems common in other counties,,, in fact even here it seems every time I see a rabbit hunter with a sling on his side by side,,, he has an accent like my great grandfather,,,, heavy Italian. Lol.

 

[Artificer]

I always seem to recall seeing them on the Marshall rifle and others. But, seems like every time someone brings up putting sling mounts on their rifle, a group of people always suggests some sort of temporary tie on method stating that it was mostly muskets that had sling attachment hardware.

I tend to be drawn towards the earlier guns. Could sling attachment hardware be part of this so called "transition" from more Germanic/European style guns, (whether imported/snuggled in as a whole gun, stocked from imported/smuggled parts, or maybe a restock of hardware from and old or broken gun, done by an immigrant craftsman), to the slimmer more uniquely American longrifle? I don't recall seeing pics of a Lehigh or other later, very slender, rifle having sling hardware.
Could be a Euro vs. American style thing? Even today, I rarely see an American upland hunter with a sling on a shotgun, but it seems common in other counties,,, in fact even here it seems every time I see a rabbit hunter with a sling on his side by side,,, he has an accent like my great grandfather,,,, heavy Italian. Lol.

Though it is not the only way a rear sling swivel was mounted, I might suggest one look to the "boss" or extension beyond the trigger bow in the following picture to suggest the intention of this trigger guard was to be used with a sling.

I may be mistaken, but when trigger guards don't have this "boss" or extension, it seems far less likely the gunsmith originally intended the rifle be set up for a sling. Unless of course an early rifle made in Germany that had the rear sling swivel screw into the bottom of the stock below the trigger guard.

Gus

 

[Relic shooter]

Swiss .70 cal. multi-groove rifled flint to percussion conversion Jaeger.
The lock is inscribed Depre' in Geneva, underside of the barrel is stamped Blacmon Montagny ;

This is one of my two remaining 'shooter grade' Jaegers. the rifle's superb bore & overall condition indicates it's belonged to a long line of shooter/collectors.. I figure most will notice the shinny replace nipple I replaced the original nipple with a Treso a good while back for safety reasons & more consistent pressures. Unfortunately I was never able to test the long range accuracy of this rifle due to age & health issues.

This is a very unadorned Jaeger that weighs 7.25lbs with an exceptionally long 34" rifled swamped barrel with an OAL length of 49".
I've owned & studied many Jaeger rifles over the past 50 years. Several features on this rifle indicates it may have been a sniper rifle.
-Most rifled Jaegers I've examined have had shorter barrels & sights that were suitable for fast shots in low light. The front & rear
sights on this rifle are very fine & unsuitable for hunting in low light..
- Photo shows he lock is attached by a single thumbscrew & pivots out by means of a hook on front of the lock plate.
- The locks on some of my French pistols also utilize a hook on front of the lock plate.
- Use of a thumb-screw is very utilitarian & would easily be snagged on clothing if this rifle was used for hunting. However if the rifle in it's original
flintlock form was used as a wall-gun or sniping rifle the thumb-screw would enable rapid removal for service, cleaning & flint replacement.
-The very unusual trigger guard on this rifle with it's chunky rounded forward protrusion also indicates it was designed to use along with a specific
rest that it could pivot on.
-The sport of target shooting was not popular during the period this rifle was built. Typically those who could afford having a custom rifle built in
this era are much more ornate.
**My library lacks information on this builder or the barrel markings, I would appreciate any feedback from forum members here & abroad.
Relic shooter

Relic shooter