Weight of powder

[renoman]

I have been given an adjustable powder measure that is not marked as to what the "clicks" refer too.
I read that black powder is measured by volume even tho people talk about "50 grain" loads.
I have a reloading scale,can anyone tell me what 50 grains of goex 2f weighs?And mabe 60 as well.
thanx.

 

[roundball]

I have been given an adjustable powder measure that is not marked as to what the "clicks" refer too.
I read that black powder is measured by volume even tho people talk about "50 grain" loads.
I have a reloading scale,can anyone tell me what 50 grains of goex 2f weighs?And mabe 60 as well.
thanx.

Powder measures are designed with black powder in mind...they are "volumetric" measures, however, their design and calibration is based upon a 1:1 weight of black powder.

ie: 100grns BP volume in a powder measure setting of 100grns, also happens to weigh 100grns.

BP substitute powders are designed and manufactured based upon the established baseline of the blackpowder industry, so that while Pyrodex might actually weigth a little less than blackpowder, you still use the same "volumetric" powder measure setting...ie: if a load calls for 100grns Pyrodex, you set the BP powder measure to 100 and fill it up.

(it will actually only weigh 72grns on a scale but it doesn't matter...it's been designed to use 100grns volume measure of it to equal the energy of 100grns volume of blackpowder.)

The short answer is that scales can be left with the modern centerfire rifles and pistols...the whole muzzleloading world is based upon using "volume" measures...regardless of what each of the different powders might actually weigh.

 

[paulvallandigham]

FFg is the powder most adjustable powder measures are scaled to measure. Just put 50 grains of powder in your powder SCALE< then pour it into the powder measure and see whick line is closest when you clost the measure by moving the adjustment upward until the powder is level with the top of the measure. Make a mark. The other marks are usually in 5 grain increments, but the only way to tell what you have is to throw a charge and put it on your scales. It doesn't take long to figure out the markings on your adj. powder measure. Don't expect it to be exact all the time.

The Target shooters, particularly the long range boys, pre-measure their powder charges on electronic scales, and put them in separate containers to go to the range. For general use in a gun that will be used for pleasure and hunting, an adjustable measure does a pretty good job. BP is not that exact. If you have a Round Ball barrel, with a slow ROT, it will forgive a small variation in the powder charge, one way or another, and still put the ball on the mark.

 

[silverfox]

Paul I may be wrong but all my measures use 10gr marks except the small pistol measures that do use 5gr marks. I don't know how you keep up with all the stuff you seem to do. Guess you got a good research team and library that I don't have. Have a good day.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

1 pound of BP equals 7000 grains. grains was derived from days when a 'kernel' of powder was approx. the size of a 'grain' of wheat. Nowadays the volume has been calculated by 'weight' of certain amount of 2F. So 3F will have slightly denser pack hence slightly more weight in an equal volume of the powder measure. Many BP shooters use 3F instead of 2F and reduce the charge (volume) by 10-20%, claim is less fouling and use same grade (3F) of powder as used in their pistols.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Silverfox: Actually, I worked on this a year ago for another question, actually weighing a volume of powder on my scale using both 3Fg and 2Fg powders. If you had asked me a few years back what this answer was, I would not know without stopping to do the checking with my powder scale. That question was how accurate was a powder " dipper " as used for loading shotguns, vs. using an adjustable measure to throw the charge. I found the dippers a lot closer to throwing both the indicated shot charges, and the powder charges, using 2Fg powder, than I had expected. The shot charge works fairly well with #6 shot, but begins to vary away from the indicated loads marked on the outside of the dippers as you increase or decrease the size of the shot being measured.

My recommendation is to check your own measure. You can use an adjustable powder measure to throw both powder and shot, but if you are going to throw anything larger than #5, or smaller than #7 1/2, I think you should check your measure against a scale, and MAKE A MARK, according to the load you want to throw, given the size of the tube for the measure.

 

[Swampman]

"The short answer is that scales can be left with the modern centerfire rifles and pistols...the whole muzzleloading world is based upon using "volume" measures...regardless of what each of the different powders might actually weigh."

This is correct.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I'll just put in my two cents' worth: When you are throwing charges using a volumetric BP measure like I have, be sure to do it the same way each time you do it! I throw 70 gr. 3Fg Goex loads for my trade rifles. I pour the powder into the measure, put down the can, tap the side of the measure to finish settling the charge, then top-off the charge to fill the tube, put down the can and tap the side of the measure again. Then I twist the spout into battery and then pour this one charge into a red tube and put the end cap on the tube. Repeat 70 times and I have enough charges thrown for a BP league match so that my son and I can just shoot the rifle and not worry about throwing inconsistant charges.

I use a powder measure that's already marked in 5 gr. icrements. From 5-120 gr. in the same measure. I can mark "in-between" measures by just using a pocket knife to make a horizontal cut in the scale.

Consistancy and anal-retentiveness are paid off with win after win in competition. Once you find something that works for you, keep doing it the same way each time and you'll be rewarded too :wink: .

All the best,

Dave

 

[peashooterJoe]

A 22 long will hold about 5gns +/- give or take.A 38 special case will hold about 24 gns of powder +/- give or take. A 45auto will hold about 28 +/- give or take. You could use these as a starting point. I have found variations in different lots of powder. Simple and most people have these and never think about using them. As with everthing your measurements will vary, cause we all do things differently.
I pour powder and tap 3 times, works for me(a personal thing) and top it off. You are trying to get a constant load and once you get a routine keep it for life. Whether you use flint or percussion doesn't matter. As with everthing your measurements will vary and above all buy a good adjustable powder measure that is marked. Good luck PeashooterJoe..

 

[ResearchPress]

"The short answer is that scales can be left with the modern centerfire rifles and pistols...the whole muzzleloading world is based upon using "volume" measures...regardless of what each of the different powders might actually weigh."

This is correct.

No it's not. Paul has already pointed out that some target shooters, and particularly long range shooters weigh there powder charges (as I do). This may also be the case for the bench rest shooters where the objective is to shoot the smallest group. As with all generalisations there are exceptions.

David

 

[mike alexandre]

"The short answer is that scales can be left with the modern centerfire rifles and pistols...the whole muzzleloading world is based upon using "volume" measures...regardless of what each of the different powders might actually weigh."

This is correct.

The bit that you know about might be but thats not correct for any of the competitions I shoot at from patch ball at 50yds to long range at 1200 yd - all charges are weighed.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Guys: I think you have to keep in mind what kind of shooting you are doing. If you are shooting cans at 20 yds, you can pour powder down the barrel out of the palm of your hand, and probably hit the target. But if you want accuracy at longer ranges, some kind of measure is required. At the farthest ranges, charges need to be very uniform, and the only way to get that is to 1. SIFT the powder to get uniform granule size; and 2. WEIGH the powder on a scale.

Long range shooters both sift and weigh their powder charges. Hunter generally are not shooting at animals with an open sighted ML rifle at range much in excess of 100 yds. They can do fine with a volume measure, provided they use a consistent pouring and loading technique when pouring the powder into their measure. I used to shoot out of a fixed measure made from a piece of antler. As long as I took my time pouring in the powder, it worked just fine. I went back to using my adjustable measure when I sold my first gun and bought a new one. The fixed measure was not adequate for my new rifle, and I never have bothered to grind it open some more. Antler stinks when its drilled or ground. :nono: :thumbsup:

 

[Swampman]

Weigh it all you want but a volume measured amount of blackpowder doesn't weigh the same from one lot to another or even from one day to the next. If weighing it makes you think you're more accurate that's fine. That can make a difference.

"can anyone tell me what 50 grains of goex 2f weighs?And mabe 60 as well."

The correct answer is it depends on several factors.

 

[roundball]

Gentlemen...go back to the context of the poster's question...his was not a question about weighing vs. not weighing.

It was a basic question about the whole notion of volume measure vs. weight measures...and it was answered correctly in that context.

 

[longcruise]

Righto Roundball. I think he was mainly concerned with figuring out what the correct markings should be on his measure. It was pointed out by Paul how to figure that out eaily.

He could also label each mark as A, B, C, etc. and use those for maintaining repeatability.

Mark, the weight of each charge may vary from day to day, lot to lot, etc., but the point of weighing them is to assure that a particular group of charges are the same for any given day of shooting or a given match.

Also, just to further muddy the waters, here are the results of a powder weighing experiment I did a few years ago. And, of course the weights of the different brands would vary from lot to lot, but this gives you an idea of the variation that can exist.

BP Weight Comparisons

From an RCBS measure at an arbitrary setting.

Graf 3f
55.9
55.5
55.5
55.3
-------
55.55

Goex 2f
51.1
51.7
51.3
51.4
-------
51.37

Goex 3f
52.2
52.1
52.5
52.2
--------
52.25

Elephant 2f
60.2
60.4
60.4
60.1
---------
60.27

Swiss 1.5f
55.9
56.1
56.4
56.2
------
56.15

Swiss 2f
57.4
57.2
57.2
57.4
-------
57.30

Pyrodex RS
37.0
37.1
37.5
36.8
-------
37.10

 

[Swampman]

Mark, the weight of each charge may vary from day to day, lot to lot, etc., but the point of weighing them is to assure that a particular group of charges are the same for any given day of shooting or a given match.

The volume measure doesn't change ever, that's why it's the correct way to measure blackpowder.

 

[mike alexandre]

You may or may not be right in what you say however I can say that when I weigh powder by weight the chronograph stays consistant. When I throw by volumn it doesnt. Thats why I do what most of the long range shooters do and throw by weight.

 

[longcruise]

The volume measure doesn't change ever, that's why it's the correct way to measure blackpowder

Your completely missing the point of what I said. Of course the volume does not change and even though the weight of a given volume might change from day to day due to atmospherics (these are miniscule changes), what many shooters are doing is making certain that the loads they take to the range for a session or match are all exactly the same weight and they will be more consistent in velocity and therefore accuracy. These differences are not noticeable at 50 or 100 yards, but long range shooters have learned this in shooting 200 to 1000 yards.

Look at the charge weights above. The four preceding the average. They range form .2 to .8 difference and that's thrown with careful technique from a bench mounted powder measure. If I had averaged 15 charges, the average would be pretty close to the same, but I'm betting that all of them would have had an es of .7 to 1.0 tenths grain. I have done this same thing using my adjustable range measure with the sliding funnel that shears the load off even. Variations are even higher! Using an open top measure, as I often do, gives up even higher spreads.

That said, I don't weigh my charges, but that's just a matter of my personal approach to shooting. Just because we use the KISS (keep it simple shooter) system when enjoying our sport doesn't preclude asking questions and experimentation.

 

[Will Bison]

"I have a reloading scale,can anyone tell me what 50 grains of goex 2f weighs?"

The answer is 50 grains.

 

[Deadeye]

Finally, someone has read the question and given a correct answer, thank you Will Bison.