weirdo 1857 enfield

[cositrike]

Yes, the Brits put a simple grove sight on after removing the original. They sure didn't want them to hit anything.

The sepoy Enfield, at 0.656” bore, were made with the fixed rear sight

 

[Notchy Bob]

In case anyone is interested, Dixie Gun Works sells a Three-Band 1853 Enfield Smoothbore, made by ArmiSport/Chiappa, optimistically equipped with the 1,000 yard rear sight. I don't know if they were trying to duplicate an original gun similar to the one in the first post, or if it is intended for the Civil War reenactors who only shoot blanks.

Best regards,
Notchy Bob

 

[BadHorse]

If it’s 577 and has the long range sight, it’s not a sepoy musket

So, you have a 577 musket with a long range sight. You still don’t have a sepoy musket, because they weren’t 577. It came from India. Cool. Enjoy

I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG ITS FROM INDIA, how else would it have been part of the Indian Mutiny

 

[cositrike]

I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG ITS FROM INDIA, how else would it have been part of the Indian Mutiny

I give up. You believe whatever you like!

 

[Britsmoothy]

In case anyone is interested, Dixie Gun Works sells a Three-Band 1853 Enfield Smoothbore, made by ArmiSport/Chiappa, optimistically equipped with the 1,000 yard rear sight. I don't know if they were trying to duplicate an original gun similar to the one in the first post, or if it is intended for the Civil War reenactors who only shoot blanks.

Best regards,
Notchy Bob

Many reproduction muskets were/are made for countries where upon obtaining a smoothbore is relatively easier than a rifle. Dixie gun works will market it for reenactment but in countries like Britain they are sold as shotguns.
I owned at one time two Parker Hale reproduction Enfield's in .58" smoothbore and hunted small game with them. They had the Peabody sights too.

 

[RAEDWALD]

Perhaps there has been some confusion in language? A 'Sepoy Enfield' is a very specific item. Pattern 1858 or 1859. That is the 0,656" smooth bore. Hence musket. All made in England by the Enfield factory. The pictured gun is not one of those despite being smooth bored.

The post said that it came from a 'collection in Afghanistan'. It could be an actual Pattern 1853 rifle musket coming into Afghanistan from stealing, smuggling or one made in the factory in Kabul. Or it could be an Afridi hand made copy. Many of the last were actually quite well made as well as many not so. If the bore is more than 0,580"then it is likely one made rifled and bored out for some reason. If it is less or the same then it was made smooth bored so must be locally made. If the barrel bears no British commercial or military proof marks, or Kabul factory marks, then it is locally artisan made (but these were/are often faked). I see no markings on the lock plate to give us a guide but there just might be a blurred hint of the mark denoting an East India Government purchase. So a photograph of the lock plate, barrel markings and rear sight would be invaluable in identifying it further.

Of course it will shoot just as well whether more closely identified or not and I am glad it is being enjoyed which is the main thing. The last user probably used suitably sized normal musket paper cartridges.

 

[RAEDWALD]

Yes, the Brits put a simple grove sight on after removing the original. They sure didn't want them to hit anything.

The Pattern 1858/9 sight is actually quite adequate for the range at which the musket was effective. It is the percussion musket of choice by competition percussion musket target shooters. The sights differ little from the British Army and Honourable East India Company standard service muskets of the previous decade so was very much fit for purpose. Within it's effective range the East India Government's army definitely wanted them to hit what they shot at. That is what they were paid to do. Originally with a normal musket type paper cartridge with a 0,632" ball and a charge of 4 drams of musket powder. Assuming a typical 2 layer wrap of 0,003" paper then a cartridge diameter of 0,644" thus a windage of 0,006" on each side of the ball.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Many reproduction muskets were/are made for countries where upon obtaining a smoothbore is relatively easier than a rifle. Dixie gun works will market it for reenactment but in countries like Britain they are sold as shotguns.

Thank you, Britsmoothy. I am embarrassed to admit that I did not think of the international market, or of the restrictions faced by many of our blackpowder brethren overseas.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Codgernam]

Very interesting thread . Had not heard of the Enfield being a smooth bore .
Thanks gents real cautious about that musket .

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I would be very wary of the origins of any “veteran bringback” Afghan muskets from the past two decades.

Guns were/are cobbled together and faked all the time to make war trophies. I saw many when I was over there that were clearly fashioned for no other reason than selling to GIs who would never know the difference.

 

[BadHorse]

mines not cobbled together

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

mines not cobbled together

I never said yours was, just that anyone buying one must do their research to make sure the gun is original. You have clearly done so, and good on you.

 

[Whitworth]

I had a couple of those, imported from India.

 

[Rum River]

View attachment 34219

View attachment 34220
i got this original shooter recently with a few others like it. its an original 1857 enfield "smoothbore" and as im told it was "liberated" from a collection in afganistan a few years ago. this weirdo has seen a lot of action and history. amazingly its still a shooter. i almost forgot, i named her "Lucrezia Borgia" and she lives up to her name

Cool.
What kind of load(s) have you tried so far?

 

[Codgernam]

The Sepoy smooth bore Enfields where a good arm . Well managed they are very hard to beat in the ' Lovell ' MLAGB matches . I shot a Pattern' F', E I Coy Miners & Sappers carbine I managed a silver but never beat the Mutiny Enfields .
I doubt the issue cartridge involved any' patched ball '. I recall the guard at the Coin Museum in Kathmandu in 1969 was armed with one, its bayonet so worn it rattled .Or maybe just a' rattleing good fit' ?. Rudyard

Interesting . Karmamdhu . MSG duty ? A buddy of mine was there in mid sixties as Embassy Guard.

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Codgernam .No not on any duty just the regular old Blackwater fever getting over. Two months 'first at the Shanta Bhawan Mission hospital then a USAID place by the Monkey temple at Swayanboonath Over looking the Paddy fields that the Gorkas shot their rifles over .After that it was The City Lodge in town . " Jai Nepaul !" ( Praise Nepal). Did get to rent a push bike & go Knocking on Seedy run down once grand houses looking for & finding old muzzle loaders. But getting them out wasn't possible at that time .

Overlanding B W Fever generally got travellers at India or Nepal being sort of a half way place . Ide come up from Portugees Timor Via Darwin . Did score locks In India & Kabul ( still using some up ).ten shilling apiece (100 Afghanis then ) Pre Russian invasion days .
Cheers Rudyard