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Welcome Mathewson rifle and horn

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If this has already been covered, forgive me.
On the Antiques Roadshow program this week a woman had a Welcome Mathewson Rifle and powder horn- with his name on it- being appraised.
The appraiser said it was one of the finest he had ever seen, and the condition was almost perfect. He valued this combination at more then 100K.
Comments?
 
Wow he was a gunsmith from Rhode Island. His most productive period was from 1805 to 1815 according to my book here. Wish I had seen the show darn it.
 
My book has a pic of his personal rifle with a horn. Wonder if these are the ones your talking about. The rifle have a horse head final on the patchbox?
 
This one 11?

wmgunhorn.jpg
 
I saw the show and that appears to be it. The lady also had a shop ledger with his business records in it. BTW I remember reading in Muzzle Blasts some 25 years ago that the silver Armstong rifle had sold for around 60 thousand so I guess the ARS guy could be right.
 
Wow....just to be able to hold that gun and look at it would make my day. He built guns up to the 1840's but records are spotty after 1815. He was into wire inlay big time.
 
It has a horse head patchbox and I think the stock is cherry. PBS reruns this show every now and then, so it should be on again.
 
The book says this gun is, without a doubt, one of the finest New England flintlock rifles known.

His favorate stocking wood was indeed cherry and instead of raised carvings, he prefered to enter into the field of silver wire embellishments. When he used patchboxes, he usually favored the horse head pattern.
 
I've seen the show a couple of times now and this rifle is absolutely splendid. I wish that more information was available, and maybe some measured drawings. This rifle is definitely worth copying.
 
Hey Swamprat... which book is that in? I have little to none about builders from NY,NJ CONN. ,R.I. ,MASS. I only have the current Fowler book that's out.
 
When I got bit by the flintlock bug, one of the first things I did was get this book. I wanted learn as much as I could about the arms makers of my little State.
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...&SUBID=42&STYLEID=173&PARTNUM=BOOK-RIAMG[/url]
 
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I think the rifle is still in Rhode Island. The episode of the show was filmed in Providence. It seems to me that two shows were filmed there, but the one that has the rifle will list the rifle in the show description. The powder horn is beautiful, too.
 
The rifle is superb, but its appearance on the show seems to have been a setup. The gun (and horn and ledger) were not unknown and they didn't just suddenly turn up on the Roadshow (remember the Civil War sword incident years ago?). I have the book from the KRA titled "Selected Articles from the KRA bulletin", and this gun, horn, and ledger were written up in the Spring, 1992 issue.
 
Yes, I agree.
I wonder how many of the items brought in are set ups?
Oh, well, doesn't really matter.
As someone above mentioned, it included his work ledger, and the gun is supposed to have been passed down in the family something like 6 generations.
It was made of cherry, and appeared to be in excellent condition.
 
Gentlemen,
I've been lurking at your site, enjoying it but wondering what I could contribute since I don't hunt, haven't built a gun in years and don't do a lot of shooting. I am pretty much a collector, specializing in English and New England guns.

Well...I have seen and handled the rifle in question. It is still in the hands of the family. I suspect the lady who had it there is the one I've met. She's a direct descendent of Welcome Mathewson. the rifle, in fact, has never been out of the family. I didn't see the Antiquies Road Show but I did hear of it shortly after it was shown.

I have no idea who their "expert" was in this case. I'm guessing someone who really knows his stuff about the Civil War. It used to be the late Bill Guthman who I doubt would never have made such an absurd valuation. (though if anyone could have found a buyer at that price, it was him) Simply put, if it were to sell for 1/4 of $100,000 it would be bringing between five and ten times what could reasonably be expected for a New England Rifle. Why you may ask...because pratically no one collects them and very few are interested in them. In fact, I probably know nearly all the bigger collectors and you can count them on your fingers.

(Odd things can happen at auctions too...I saw an $800 sword sold for $18,000 because two members of a wealthy family both wanted it...the price had nothing at all to do ith the sword)

That said, it is an exceptional rifle especially as having been the property of the maker and having the horn etc still with it. I would guess it to be as good as a NE rifle can get and I wouldn't be surprised to see it fetch almost 10,000 in a room with more than one NE collector present.

For what its worth...they also have Welcome's fowler which is, interestingly, an English single barrel by Philip Bond.
There are five Matheson guns illustrated in Bill Achtermeier's book on RI Gunmakers cited above, all of which belonged to the late Donald Andreason. One of them, the one with the clock patchbox, probably had its patchbox added later. The workmanship isn't up to Welcome's standards. As to his work before 1805...that was the year he completed his apprenticeship so I don't think there would be anything older that was attributable to him. His style is quite distinctive, different from virtually all other NE makers. He liked a long wrist and "hand rail"...from the side his guns are very graceful looking but the wrist is ovid in shape, quite thick through the center for strength. I've had two muskets attributed to him, I still have one and although I never take "attributions" at face value it distinctive enough to be a possibility...that and the gun came out of the woodwork 70 years ago in the exact neighborhood.
His patchboxes are also unusual in that I think he may have cast them himself. His stock profile, with the long hand rail, makes using the conventional "off-the-shelf" NE horsehead patchbox difficult...the butt isn't flat enough, so Welcome's are actually cast to incorporate the curves. Never having owned one of the rifles mysef I haven't been able to take one apart to confirm this but I have handled all of those that were in Don Andreason's collection.

Now, having bored you to death I hope this didn't come off as a lecture...thats one of my problems. It is a great rifle but no one is an expert at everything and NE rifles are such an obscure subject that we shouldnt' be surprised if they bobbled the valuation on this one.

Joe Puleo
 
Great post,Joe and I harbored some of the same thoughts on the matter myself but without your experience in New England material.I can think of several fine old Hudson Valley or New England fowlers that I wouldn't trade for two guns like the one in question here.As to why the sudden and strange resurrection of this gun,horn,and ledger I can only wonder why.Perhaps it's on the market now or will be in the near future and needs some hyping.It's been known to[url] happen.Again[/url] thanks for the post,it was needed.
Tom Patton
 
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In this case I am not suspicious of this being a "set up". It is far more likely to be a simple matter of the "expert" not really knowing what he was talking about. I don't have any problem with that at all. I've been involved in collecting for more than 40 years and I'd run rather than put my name to an appraisal of an engraved "51 Navy Colt. I simply don't begin to have the necessary expertise.
The lady ho owns the gun is very interested in her family's history. they've been in the same place since the middle of the 18th century and haven't thrown anything away. They also have Welcome's brothers' saber (he commanded the only Dragoon company in the RI Militia ca 1812) In fact we had a very nice visit because distant relatives of mine were friends of her grandparents and I was actually able to fill her in on the details of a mystery left unanswered from the turn of the century! All this came about while I as trying to buy the Mathewson house - thats another story and a sad one. Its since been demolished.

If anyone is interested I'll try to post some pictures of NE guns.

Joe Puleo
 

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